Anti wet sump valve

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worntorn said:
There haven't been any engine failures caused by a manual valve with engine cut-out, although there have been hundreds of claims of impending doom.
There have been some spring loaded valves that failed, or appeared to fail as the engine blew and there was a spring valve mounted. I would avoid that type of valve.

On the other hand, there have been a tremendous number of scored pistons, broken rings, busted rods and otherwise pooched engines that have no anti-drain valve of any kind fitted.
Many of the bikes without a valve have seized up, blown up, or been put to rest under a bench, yet zero that have the manual/interlock valve have done so. This gives us some fun statistics.
At the moment, statistically, it appears that fitting an ignition cut out type manual oil valve somehow prevents total engine destruction! :)
Better get one on there soon!

Glen
Click to expand...
Which leads us to the next question ....... What will we talk about when our future bikes will be electric and no more need for a AWSV
 
This topic was covered 4 or 5 months ago. There was a video posted that had a bench test demonstrating a very much reduced flow of oil with an open, spring loaded, ball valve. Of course, the HNW version may not have the same impact on flow. I had one of the automatic valves in the oil feed line. I removed it and bought the easy empty sump plug arrangement, just for peace of mind. I've found a week in the garage without a start is fine. Longer than that, I'll empty the sump.

I have one of the Feked electric cut off valves on the shelf, but don't feel the need for it.
 
vidar hjelm johansen said:
Hi
I am considering installing an Anti wet sump valve from Holland Norton Work.
It looks like an elegant and good solution to a major or minor problem.
But for me to do that, I have to trust it 110%. Will the engine, for example, then be able to suck in the oil if the system has been emptied (filled with air) and establish oil pressure quickly enough.

How smart is this, has some of you out there experience with this valve ?

Vidar
Click to expand...
Vider
What valve are you thinking about?
 
vidar hjelm johansen said:
Hi
I am considering installing an Anti wet sump valve from Holland Norton Work.
It looks like an elegant and good solution to a major or minor problem.
But for me to do that, I have to trust it 110%. Will the engine, for example, then be able to suck in the oil if the system has been emptied (filled with air) and establish oil pressure quickly enough.

How smart is this, has some of you out there experience with this valve ?

Vidar
Click to expand...
I made my own AWS valve with ign interrupt microswitch. I also have an oil pressure guage fitted. I can tell you that after sitting for weeks, valve off, upon startup (moving valve to on), I get oil pressure to 40-60 psi almost instantly.

EDIT:
From HMW website, I cannot tell how this valve operates. If it is a spring loaded ball valve type, relying on a suction effect from pump to open, then I would not trust it. Our pumps do not generate much actual suction to draw such a valve open, esp if there is only air on the feed side into pump. Also having this
Valve sitting bottom of tank would be a potential risk as we always see sludge build up at bottom of our tanks over time. That would likely interfere with such a mechanism one day.
 
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Did somebody say there's a dead horse to whip? Yeehaw

Cool looking part.

Probably already mentioned. Well, how could it not be? There must be thousands of pages dedicated to wet sump by now.

Assuming that HNW part works, the oil pump in the Norton is plenty strong enough to pull/push oil through the circuit after an oil and filter change without starting the motor. Take the spark plugs out of the head and 25 or so strokes with the kick starter (hand or foot) and you should see oil returning to the oil tank. If not, you probably have an issue. It's what I do after oil changes now, but when I was a youth, I just started the darn thing and rode it.
 
vidar hjelm johansen said:
How smart is this, has some of you out there experience with this valve ?

Vidar
Click to expand...

It seems no one has experience with that actual valve to date. (here)

72_anti_wet_sump_valve_-_kopie.jpg
72_IMG_4885.jpg


I wonder if a valve in the oil line would be like a finger over the end of a straw and the liquid stays in place when you lift it.
The oil line would stay primed to the pump. (Not just mechanically stopping oil flow via a valve)

A good proportion of the calamities I have read are along the lines of "I forgot to turn the manual valve on and it wrecked my engine, stupid valve.

Then there are the folk (video's even) who seem to think it is fine to start the engine and plumes of smoke is normal. (with no thought to why there is 'smoke getting into the combustion chamber)
 
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Hi all,
I see Triumph Tridents (not sure about the twins) have always had a non drain valve, I have never heard of one failing in the closed position. I believe they can leak with age and are reseated with a smart blow with a drift on the ball up onto the seat.
I guess being so low in the motor means it’s always flooded but on the supply and delivery side of the valve.
Not sure if this tells us anything.
Al
 
Alan L said:
Hi all,
I see Triumph Tridents (not sure about the twins) have always had a non drain valve, I have never heard of one failing in the closed position. I believe they can leak with age and are reseated with a smart blow with a drift on the ball up onto the seat.
I guess being so low in the motor means it’s always flooded but on the supply and delivery side of the valve.
Not sure if this tells us anything.
Al
Click to expand...
When the check valve in early Harley Big Twins would stick and allow oil to leak down it was recommended that a mixture of kerosene and oil be run through the engine at idle until the mixture returning to the tank would get slightly warmed. Drain the mixture and top off with fresh oil, problem solved.
 
Time Warp said:
It seems no one has experience with that actual valve to date. (here)

View attachment 85221 View attachment 85222

I wonder if a valve in the oil line would be like a finger over the end of a straw and the liquid stays in place when you lift it.
The oil line would stay primed to the pump. (Not just mechanically stopping oil flow via a valve)

A good proportion of the calamities I have read are along the lines of "I forgot to turn the manual valve on and it wrecked my engine, stupid valve.

Then there are the folk (video's even) who seem to think it is fine to start the engine and plumes of smoke is normal. (with no thought to why there is 'smoke getting into the combustion chamber)
Click to expand...
So how does this one work? Some kind of spring & ball mechanism or something different? Either way, it seems to be reliant on a suction effect from the pump to open. That is my concern here....as demonstrated in this test rig of a Commando pump trying to draw oil down an empty feed pipe:

 
Tornado said:
So how does this one work? Some kind of spring & ball mechanism or something different? Either way, it seems to be reliant on a suction effect from the pump to open. That is my concern here....as demonstrated in this test rig of a Commando pump trying to draw oil down an empty feed pipe:

Click to expand...

Has anyone tested the AMR version with the check valve on the high pressure side of the oil pump?
 
Dan1950 said:
I wasn't quoting the OP. ashman mentioned anything in between tank and motor, and the ones with a ball and spring set up have been known to fail.
Click to expand...
Well I have owned my Norton for 46 years since new and see no reason to put anything in between my oil tank and motor, everyone has their own opinion and what others do to their Norton is up to them, but as I say if they aren't ridden all the time and let to sit they will wet sump, but I am not lazy and only takes a few minutes to pull the drain plug while I am checking everything else before a ride, I can't see what the the big deal is all about, I do look in the oil tank before any start up if the bike has sat for sometime, but that is very rare for me to let it sit, if you want to put a anti sump valve in go for it, its just not for me thanks, just my opinion.

Ashley
 
Alan L said:
I see Triumph Tridents (not sure about the twins) have always had a non drain valve
Click to expand...
On the pressure side of the oil pump. That’s very different from what the OP is planning.

Of course Triumph twins don’t have a non-drain valve. They don’t need one. Oil doesn’t drain through their plunger pump.
 
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