Anti wet sump valve

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vidar hjelm johansen

vidar hjelm johansen

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Hi
I am considering installing an Anti wet sump valve from Holland Norton Work.
It looks like an elegant and good solution to a major or minor problem.
But for me to do that, I have to trust it 110%. Will the engine, for example, then be able to suck in the oil if the system has been emptied (filled with air) and establish oil pressure quickly enough.

How smart is this, has some of you out there experience with this valve ?

Vidar
 
Hello, I installed the valve and a oil pressure gauge. Works great, no problems.
If your system is emptied and you want to be perfectly shure: Fill some oil in the line after the Valve and before the oil pump (by the screw at the valve) or directly in the tube before the oil pump.

This is not bad a bad idea to do so every time the system has been emptied I think ....
In normal use, based on my experience so far, it is not necessary
 
Last edited:
vidar hjelm johansen said:
Hi
I am considering installing an Anti wet sump valve from Holland Norton Work.
It looks like an elegant and good solution to a major or minor problem.
But for me to do that, I have to trust it 110%. Will the engine, for example, then be able to suck in the oil if the system has been emptied (filled with air) and establish oil pressure quickly enough.

How smart is this, has some of you out there experience with this valve ?

Vidar
Click to expand...
Vidar
Your question is a good one - but...
There are those on this forum that consider such valves a devil-spawn. No rational thinking appears to be able to sway them. Be ready for the onslaught!
From a practical perspective, as long as the valve ID is not much smaller than th original hose ID there should be no problem in this gravity fed system..
If the system has been emptied then there is no oil in the oil tank (shouldn't happen if the valve was "off"). If there is no oil in the tank then starting the engine would be unwise - could blow out a LH crank seal. You should drain the sump - funnel back into the oil tank and gravity will do the rest.
Other than that, the only risk (substantial consequence!) is forgetting to turn the valve on when starting. Some valves have electrical interlocks to prevent/reduce the likelihood of that.
Me? I don't have or intend fitting one. Draining sump oil after a long sit isn't a big problem/task, and it keeps the system simple.
Cheers
Rob
 
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If you ride the bike regularly no need for one, but if you park it up for sometime then letting it wet sump is not to bad to keep the cam and everything down below lubed, when it time to ride again just undo the drain plug let drain in a clean container and put back in the oil tank, it don't take that long to do and if its been sitting be a good time while draining the oil to check the bike out before any ride after sitting.
I don't trust anything that turns the oil supply off or anything in between tank and motor, and the ones with a ball and spring set up have been known to fail.
So many make a big deal about wet sumping, in 46 years of ownership of my Norton it has only wet sump 3 times and only if its been sitting for over 5 months.
 
I seem to remember there was a rather heated discussion about these and Constant (@Holland Norton Works ) said there had never been a reported failure of his valves. After an oil change I would definitely fill the supply hose with oil though.

I prefer to go the manual route and have just finished this valve, which will have an ignition interlock and a warning buzzer...

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A few rules to sort out the 2 most likely failure routes of a spring closed one way valve.

1. As the pump does not suck well especially air, always prime the line after an oil change or unconnecting the line for any reason.

2. The ball bearing sticking to the valve seat, for the first start of the day run the bike long enough so the oil being returned to the tank to be fresh oil not just the oil drained into the sump after the last stop. So wait for the bubbles to appear showing the sump excess has been pulled and give it another 2 mins.
 
ashman said:
I don't trust anything that turns the oil supply off or anything in between tank and motor, and the ones with a ball and spring set up have been known to fail.
Click to expand...
Harley Davidson used an anti drain check valve since the 1930s.

The only way I could see a failure when the check valve is on the high pressure side would be a situation where there was insufficient oil pressure. If that would be the case you would have problems elsewhere.
 
There is lots of case history on this. Search & read.
ANY TYPE of restriction on the suction side is a chance for disaster. The time/effort/money I have in my engine does not allow taking that chance.
Caveat Emptor

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anti sump failure..........(2015)

This morning I took a mk3 I recently aquired out for a run went a bout 8 miles & he motor stopped running. After getting it home an inspection revealed a full oil tank of cold oil.....someone had fitted an anti drain valve, the metal & plastic type......this had split apart so no oil was being...
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WET SUMP VALVE RECALL

Hi all, Well what I have seen has promted me to react to this problem the only way I know how. With a wetsump valve recall. There has been to many recent issues with the valves coming apart, and they do so in the same place on all the reported cases. This tells me that the valve does in fact...
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Wet sumping - better to leave it?

I know of several people who have blown up their motors after installing various anti wet sumping valves and I recently heard from someone who did just that to their show winning Norton. I've never experienced any damage from wet sumping personally. I've heard concern from people that see the...
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"After an oil change I would definitely fill the supply hose with oil though."
That supply hose stays full during an oil change, right up to the banjo bolt strainer in the tank.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
The valve types being considered by the OP are not on the high pressure side.
Click to expand...
I wasn't quoting the OP. ashman mentioned anything in between tank and motor, and the ones with a ball and spring set up have been known to fail.
 
Dan1950 said:
The only way I could see a failure when the check valve is on the high pressure side would be a situation where there was insufficient oil pressure.
Click to expand...
My one and only failure of oil feed to a crank on a motorcycle engine was perversely on a BSA C15 where the oil anti sump valve is after the pump on the feedside ie the best possible position. I had rebuilt the engine and luckily used clear tube for the oil feed line. Started the engine and oil initially made its way from the tank to the engine for two minutes, then the flow stopped before reversing and pumping air back to the tank. Two dismantling and reassembling to get at the valve, new balls and springs fitted each time resulted in no change. So on the 3rd dismantling I removed the ball and spring completely. Problem solved and the oil flow was good with decent pressure on 3rd attempt and the oil pump was checked every time but no work needed.

So there must have been a blockage after the pump, when it could force no more oil it instead took air from the sections of the pump and pushed this backwards not forwards.

Which just goes to show that engineering rules are not rules but guidance and you have to be prepared for exceptions no matter how hard the rule is supposed to be.
 
The HNW valve is a spring valve (not manual) and is actually mounted in the oil tank.

The question I think the op is asking is: is it possible for the oil contained in the feed pipe, between the closed valve and the engine, to ‘weep’ away into the sump?

If so, on start up that would leave a closed valve, an empty feed pipe, and a pump trying to suck air.

Sounds kinda horrid, but is it possible?

Constant is one of the good guys in my experience, so his word has credibility for me. But I haven’t fitted one…
 
Fast Eddie said:
The question I think the op is asking is: is it possible for the oil contained in the feed pipe, between the closed valve and the engine, to ‘weep’ away into the sump?
Click to expand...
Anything is possible but my equivalent spring non drain valve is above the gearbox in the horizontal part of the pipe run and does not suffer from this line emptying of oil over long layovers. But even so I still for the first start of the day run the engine long enough to be sure fresh oil is flowing before heading off even after 20 odd years of the valve working. Its actually a airline non return valve with a rubber seat to give an airtight seal and I removed the spring and reduced its length until it could only support an 18" column of oil before opening.
 
I would not run any sort of anti wet sump valve without some sort of oil pressure indicator. I run an AWS and oil pressure gauge - works well for me.
 
There haven't been any engine failures caused by a manual valve with engine cut-out, although there have been hundreds of claims of impending doom.
There have been some spring loaded valves that failed, or appeared to fail as the engine blew and there was a spring valve mounted. I would avoid that type of valve.

On the other hand, there have been a tremendous number of scored pistons, broken rings, busted rods and otherwise pooched engines that have no anti-drain valve of any kind fitted.
Many of the bikes without a valve have seized up, blown up, or been put to rest under a bench, yet zero that have the manual/interlock valve have done so. This gives us some fun statistics.
At the moment, statistically, it appears that fitting an ignition cut out type manual oil valve somehow prevents total engine destruction! :)
Better get one on there soon!

Glen
 
concours said:
"After an oil change I would definitely fill the supply hose with oil though."
That supply hose stays full during an oil change, right up to the banjo bolt strainer in the tank.
Click to expand...
Not if all the oil is in the sump :)
 
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