wet sump solution

I did the ball check valve in the timing cover and machined the oil pump for orings and it cut down the wet sumping to almost nothing after 2 -3 weeks.

bchessell2 said:

I did the ball check valve in the timing cover and machined the oil pump for orings and it cut down the wet sumping to almost nothing after 2 -3 weeks.

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My Commando does that with nothing other than the resurfaced oil pump per the Norton service manual. So clearly it can be minimized with the proper pump/internals/tolerances. If wet-sumping is seen as a problem, I would certainly try working with the pump before adding any sort of valve to the system.

Bernhard said:

There is only one way - the Velocette way!

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What does the Velocette valve look like and is it fit able to Norton’s?

The only pics I can find on google show a valve that screws into the outlet of the oil tank. Is that what you’re referring to?

Fast Eddie said:

What does the Velocette valve look like and is it fit able to Norton’s?

The only pics I can find on google show a valve that screws into the outlet of the oil tank. Is that what you’re referring to?

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The Veo one is split into three body sections that contain the large ball bearing and very weak thin wire type spring. It would be easier for me to try and obtain a photo with it disassembled than try and describe it to you.

Bernhard said:

The Veo one is split into three body sections that contain the large ball bearing and very weak thin wire type spring. It would be easier for me to try and obtain a photo with it disassembled than try and describe it to you.

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A picture speaks a thousand words...

p400 said:

So an 8 oz cup?
or a modern 32oz cup?
a UK size tea cup?

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A British cup, of course. But it might have been in reference to the amount of oil in the crank sludge trap, not the cases.

I may have missed mention of this but, does anyone have a comment to make on the Holland Norton Works valve?

I've had a manual cut off valve in the oil feed of my 850 for years but I do have an ignition cut off switch attached to it!

Before I knew anything about the necessity to worry about the Norton wet sump conundrum, I used to fire that old Norton up and just take off. Did that no matter how long it had been sitting. Never thought twice about it. Ignorance is bliss.

I took the ball check and light spring wet sump fix concept out of the timing cover. Well, actually it fell out when I had the timing cover off a few weeks ago, and the ball went into the drain pan. Spring was bent funny, so I just tossed it all. Besides it never worked worth a damn.

Best solution for me is of the use it or lose it school of thought. I try to start my Norton every 4 days. Only bike I have left, so easy to remember to do. Starting it and running it 10 minutes or so seems to work on reducing content in the sump. All very obvious and not high tech.

I installed a 2S cam in my P11 motor, which really screwed up the crank case ventilation. In addition to a shade tree engineered timing side case breather, I vented the intake valve cover to help with crank case pressure relief. Of course I don't give a darn about the look not being original. I just want it to run a little better. A side effect of this breather vent set up is I don't get any oil out of the drive side crank seal in my primary case, and chances of blowing out that crank seal are zero or close to it. That was not my intention, just a lucky side effect. Not a perfect solution for most, but it works for my little 750 Norton engine.

maylar said:

A British cup, of course. But it might have been in reference to the amount of oil in the crank sludge trap, not the cases.

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Section C32 of the Workshop Manual refers to priming the crankshaft with a "teacup full of oil".

NickZ said:

Section C32 of the Workshop Manual refers to priming the crankshaft with a "teacup full of oil".

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I think there was a supplementary service bulletin telling you not to use the best china.

So what is the expected normal residual oil in crankcase at the end of a normal ride.
I am wanting a documented amount of oil to expect in a Commando crankcase.
I can not believe the sump is pumped dry at all times. This zero quantity does not make sense.
Dont care about the crankshaft amount, altho fun to know about reference.

What is the normal amount in a Commando sump?

p400 said:

So what is the expected normal residual oil in crankcase at the end of a normal ride.
I am wanting a documented amount of oil to expect in a Commando crankcase.
I can not believe the sump is pumped dry at all times. This zero quantity does not make sense.
Dont care about the crankshaft amount, altho fun to know about reference.

What is the normal amount in a Commando?

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You're not going to get an exact answer. Depends on model/year, how long it has been shut off, engine angle when shut off and so on. The pump sucks as long as the end of the pickup is covered and the engine is running. It's not a lot - pure guess, average 4-8 ounces.

approx 50 grams oil in the crank

p400 said:

So what is the expected normal residual oil in crankcase at the end of a normal ride.
I am wanting a documented amount of oil to expect in a Commando crankcase.
I can not believe the sump is pumped dry at all times. This zero quantity does not make sense.
Dont care about the crankshaft amount, altho fun to know about reference.

What is the normal amount in a Commando sump?

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This sounds like YOU should do an experiment and let us all know the documented outcome.

p400 said:

So what is the expected normal residual oil in crankcase at the end of a normal ride.
I am wanting a documented amount of oil to expect in a Commando crankcase.
I can not believe the sump is pumped dry at all times. This zero quantity does not make sense.
Dont care about the crankshaft amount, altho fun to know about reference.
What is the normal amount in a Commando sump?

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Of couse it's not pumped quite dry, the oil pump will only pump from the level it is mounted at.

Hi All.
Why the wet sump is a problem if the engine breaths well.
I have on my 71 the Jim Comstock sump breather and the engine have never had problem with the cranckshaft seal leak and neither smokes after starting many time on the stand.
Piero

What is the documented common amount of oil found in the crankcase of any 4 stroke motorcycle in like new condition, running dry sump/oiltank arrangement , built in the last 100 years.

Recently back from a 20 mile run, parked on the center stand, 70f temp, parking grade is level, oil tank was full, 30w oil, WTF.

So wet sumping is any quantity found over how many ounces in a sump?
I dont see anyone discussing quantity , and the concern is quantity!!

Going to be hard to find documentation on that one.
It's like asking for documentation on the number of nose hairs protruding on the average vintage British bike owner.
Just no current funding for this kind of research!

Glen

worntorn said:

Going to be hard to find documentation on that one.
It's like asking for documentation on the number of nose hairs protruding on the average vintage British bike owner.
Just no current funding for this kind of research!

Glen

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Panasonic ER-GN30