wet sump solution

Derek Wilson · Sep 5, 2020

I have an oil pressure gauge fitted to my bike. And I have a spring and ball style anti-wet sump valve.

IMHO, I would not consider any anti-wet sump device with fitting an oil pressure gauge.

Bernhard · Sep 5, 2020

To Strom42 it's not a good idea to simply rev the engine after 6 months laying idle. It would be far, far better to remove the exhaust tappets covers and pour some fresh oil into the hole to lube the camshaft. Wet sumping on most British bikes comes with the territory, it got worse on the Commandos because they opened up the oil holes to the oil pump.

worntorn · Sep 5, 2020

Triton Thrasher said:
Or rather, you have heard zero reports, from the rather small number of riders who use such a thing.

It's a much larger number than the one used to claim impending doom- because the number that all those posts and all that misinformation is based on is zero!

20 years, 4 forums , I honestly don't know how many of these are fitted by now. The tidy little unit sold by Magneto Guys is forever going out of stock. They bring in a batch , those are quickly scooped up and fitted, they bring in another batch and so on.
They are one of half a dozen sources for interlock type manual valves.
So I don't know the number, but it's not hundreds at this point, it will be in the thousands by now.
I recall Iron John stated more than 500 of his units had been fitted, and that was ten years ago.

Glen

storm42 · Sep 5, 2020

Bernhard said:
To Strom42 it's not a good idea to simply rev the engine after 6 months laying idle. It would be far, far better to remove the exhaust tappets covers and pour some fresh oil into the hole to lube the camshaft. Wet sumping on most British bikes comes with the territory, it got worse on the Commandos because they opened up the oil holes to the oil pump.

I wasn’t Re I got the tits off it, but I do keep all my bikes at around 2000 rpm to help the cams.

Cheesehead Commando · Sep 5, 2020

I’m always amazed to hear other owners mention that it takes days, or even weeks, for their bike to wet sump. My ‘74 Commando will wet sump significantly over night. Always has been that way. After a total rebuild this past emoter, right down to the crank itself with all new bearings, it will still significantly wet sump within a day oR two.

One of the best upgrades I ever purchased is the reed valve breather (mine from NYC Norton) affixed to the bottom of the engine. No concerns with wet sumping, engine smoking, or seal issues any longer. Reduced crank pressure also means no oil leaks. The bottom of the engine is still spotless a thousand miles in to the rebuild. It’s an easy bolt-on addition and isn’t very costly. I’m currently rebuilding another Commando, and the reed valve breather will be an automatic purchase.

jseng1 · Sep 5, 2020

Storm 42 - a simple solution for you would be to pour in a cup of oil so the pickup tube is covered. Then you could check the level and remove some oil if necessary with a turkey baster - easy. And it sounds like you need to add the 1/8" thick oring between the main oil seal and sprocket to prevent it blowing out - would save a lot of trouble.

Mexico mike - when I said the journals dip into oil I meant when the motor was wet sumped.

Worntorn - I'm not seeing any smoke at all from wet sumping with total seal rings.

Mike40M - Yamabond at the case joints and silicone gaskets throughout can give you an oil tight Norton.

Any reed valve mounted to the back of the cases will pump out oil on start up. A clear braided hose to the oil tank will show it. With a fiberglass reinforced silicone gasket you don't need to do any milling. Just drill three holes and you can DIY. Even with my left case mounted cam vent reed valve breather I see some oil pumping out sometimes on start up when there is extra oil in the sump for the crank to dip into it and throw oil into the cam well.

storm42 · Sep 5, 2020

jseng1 said:
Storm 42 - a simple solution for you would be to pour in a cup of oil so the pickup tube is covered. Then you could check the level and remove some oil if necessary with a turkey baster - easy. And it sounds like you need to add the 1/8" thick oring between the main oil seal and sprocket to prevent it blowing out - would save a lot of trouble.

Mexico mike - when I said the journals dip into oil I meant when the motor was wet sumped.

Worntorn - I'm not seeing any smoke at all from wet sumping with total seal rings.

Any reed valve mounted to the back of the cases will pump out oil on start up. A clear braided hose to the oil tank will show it.

[/QUOTE

It could help, but mine didn’t blow out, it turned inside out, there is a wire circlip holding the seal in.

jseng1 · Sep 5, 2020

Storm 42 said "mine didn’t blow out, it turned inside out"

Sounds like yours would be a good test case for the O ring.

storm42 · Sep 5, 2020

jseng1 said:
Storm 42 said "mine didn’t blow out, it turned inside out"

Sounds like yours would be a good test case for the O ring.

it is the first time it has happened to me in 48 years of owning a Commando but the next time the drive sprocket is off, I will fit one

worntorn · Sep 5, 2020

jseng1 said:
Storm 42 said "mine didn’t blow out, it turned inside out"

Sounds like yours would be a good test case for the O ring.

Mine did the same.
Inny became an outy.

Glen

Chuck_Wagon · Sep 5, 2020

This type of sump filter with it's separate magnetic drain bolt can make draining the sump quicker & less of a hassle if it has filled up after sitting too long.

baz · Sep 5, 2020

Chuck_Wagon said:
This type of sump filter with it's separate magnetic drain bolt can make draining the sump quicker & less of a hassle if it has filled up after sitting too long.

The only problem I would have with that is if I was to kneel down to undo that without the bike being on my ramp
I would still be there now

cliffa · Sep 5, 2020

Perhaps this is the answer if you want to drain the sump. Not sure what the thread is on the Commando drain valve, but i'm sure if they don't do a suitable one and there was enough demand they would start making some (especially if it is the same thread as Triumph BSA Et. Al.). It saves time on knees not to mention the crankcase threads.

EZ Oil Drain Valve- The Easiest Oil Change!

ezoildrainvalve.com

Bernhard · Sep 5, 2020

Cheesehead Commando said:
I’m always amazed to hear other owners mention that it takes days, or even weeks, for their bike to wet sump. My ‘74 Commando will wet sump significantly over night. Always has been that way. After a total rebuild this past emoter, right down to the crank itself with all new bearings, it will still significantly wet sump within a day oR two.

One of the best upgrades I ever purchased is the reed valve breather (mine from NYC Norton) affixed to the bottom of the engine. No concerns with wet sumping, engine smoking, or seal issues any longer. Reduced crank pressure also means no oil leaks. The bottom of the engine is still spotless a thousand miles in to the rebuild. It’s an easy bolt-on addition and isn’t very costly. I’m currently rebuilding another Commando, and the reed valve breather will be an automatic purchase.

Oil pump needs a good looking over to see if there are any faults, even if the cast iron cover on pump is standing proud - it will fail to seat flush onto the crankcase when bolted on.

Triton Thrasher · Sep 5, 2020

worntorn said:
It's a much larger number than the one used to claim impending doom- because the number that all those posts and all that misinformation is based on is zero!

20 years, 4 forums , I honestly don't know how many of these are fitted by now. The tidy little unit sold by Magneto Guys is forever going out of stock. They bring in a batch , those are quickly scooped up and fitted, they bring in another batch and so on.
They are one of half a dozen sources for interlock type manual valves.
So I don't know the number, but it's not hundreds at this point, it will be in the thousands by now.
I recall Iron John stated more than 500 of his units had been fitted, and that was ten years ago.

Glen

Thousands is a surprisingly large number, to me.

marshg246 · Sep 5, 2020

Bernhard said:
Oil pump needs a good looking over to see if there are any faults, even if the cast iron cover on pump is standing proud - it will fail to seat flush onto the crankcase when bolted on.

True, but even if you get all five surfaces flat and with no clearance to to the gears, oil will still leak through the gears and there's nothing you can do about that but replace the pump and hope the tolerances are good. IMHO, it's simply a poor design choice by Norton and BSA to use that type of pump.

MexicoMike · Sep 5, 2020

My 850 wet-sumped 2 ounces of oil per night until I pulled/resurfaced the oil pump per the Norton service manual. Now almost a week for that much to drain.

BritTwit · Sep 5, 2020

cliffa said:
Perhaps this is the answer if you want to drain the sump. Not sure what the thread is on the Commando drain valve, but i'm sure if they don't do a suitable one and there was enough demand they would start making some (especially if it is the same thread as Triumph BSA Et. Al.). It saves time on knees not to mention the crankcase threads.

EZ Oil Drain Valve- The Easiest Oil Change!

EZ Oil Drain Valve- The Easiest Oil Change!

ezoildrainvalve.com

Nice idea.
However, on a motorcycle sump it would need a lock mechanism to prevent hooligans from maliciously opening and spilling your fluids.

Mike40M · Sep 5, 2020

I have two bikes with an anti wet sump valve. On both I've forgotten to turn it on once. Both have roller bearing crankshafts. A mile or two before remembering the valve. No harm to the engines. Considering how small flow there is on a total loss system, a roller bearing don't need much.
But had it been on a plain bearing engine like a Commando, it had been costly.

jseng1 · Sep 5, 2020

After looking at it more closely I think a 1/16" cross section O ring should go in along with a 1/8" cross section O ring. The 1/16" O ring would fit in the recess of the mainseal lip and prevent it from blowing inside out.

And forget the sump drain - just add a few ounces of oil if the tank is empty and use the turkey baster if you over fill it (no bending over).

Keep it simple.

wet sump solution

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