Please, I need help with timing and many other things...

The times I have fought with my '71 timing has never been the issue. I actually time it by ear and feel a fair amount, don't always have a stobe as I bounce back and forth around the country between college, jobs, and home. I am not suggesting to do it by ear, but rather to say there is plenty room for error. If it is too advanced it will idle fine but knock if you accelerate, or too retarded will try and stall on takeoff.

My single mikuni is usually the root of the problem....well probably more me than the carb, but regardless. I have to choke it and adjust the slide stop screw in a little to get it to start second kick( battery eliminator, takes a kick to charge the system). However if I turn the idle up too much or leave it too low I have kicked till I kicked the lever off (broke it too). The best remedy fpr me is to walk away for 20 min or so and retry.

I have also been twarted by lose connections at the capacitors. But that was an intermitten run then die and make me kick forever then run fine for awhile.

good luck.
Nathan Strong

Ok, so my images weren't posting. For what it is worth, here are the two original pictures I intended to post:

Day 1 in the barn:


Day 700ish in my garage. (note: rear sets are now on the bike 8) )


***edit: besides rearsets being added, the coils are also on the bike with new plug wires. Just in case some smart a$$ decides to post saying my bike won't start because I don't have coils on it. The bike is now done....

Is there smart arses on this site?

I hadn't noticed,,,,

I hope that's not an old Hooker 2 into 1. I had one of those and they dragged on the ground and backfired like crazy. Got rid of them.
Looking good anyhow, get it running.

Dave
69S

ML gave good advice on how to ascertain that the ignition timing is close enough to start, have you tried his method yet?
with the rotors that have 2 marks you can time it 180 degrees out, which means it sparks near BDC rather than TDC, however with electronic ignition both plugs spark at the same time so you cannot time it 360 degrees out, ie sparking on the exhaust stroke rather than on compression. With electronic ignition the coils are wired in series and both fire at the same time, it is best to use 6 volt coils for this application.

Dave, I haven't had the opportunity to work on it yet, so I cannot report at this time. But with the wealth of advice on here, I am confident that I will get her to fire next time. I will record the event and post a you tube video, then request everyone's mailing addresses so I can add them to my Christmas card list.... I am also going to order one of those primary cover degree plates that I am missing for future roadside repairs. No wonder a lot of these hints didnt make sense...

Pipe looks like an old period Bub exhaust.

Hello group, first let me say that the degree wheel got it close enough to start. Timing is still off. Couldn't get it to kick start, but I bump started it a few times. But I have a major oil and smoke problem. I really hope the rings didn't get stuck. The first time it started, oil was misting out the exhaust pipe and it was smoking like crazy. I sent a pic to my brother, he thought I was doing a burn out the smoke was so thick... I pulled the oil blow off valve and cleaned it... Started it and checked to make sure it was returning oil to the oil tank, it is. Checked compression to see about rings, 135 in one jug, 145 in the other. So I dont think its rings. It is blowing A LOT of oil out the vent tube too. Every time I started it, it smoked less, but still WAY too much. its like the crank case is under pressure? Enough to blow tons of oil out the breather and then up under the rings? Any ideas please? I wil post a pic when I can, but this is from my phone out in the garage...

westernjesus said:

Hello group, first let me say that the degree wheel got it close enough to start. Timing is still off. Couldn't get it to kick start, but I bump started it a few times. But I have a major oil and smoke problem. I really hope the rings didn't get stuck. The first time it started, oil was misting out the exhaust pipe and it was smoking like crazy. I sent a pic to my brother, he thought I was doing a burn out the smoke was so thick... I pulled the oil blow off valve and cleaned it... Started it and checked to make sure it was returning oil to the oil tank, it is. Checked compression to see about rings, 135 in one jug, 145 in the other. So I dont think its rings. It is blowing A LOT of oil out the vent tube too. Every time I started it, it smoked less, but still WAY too much. its like the crank case is under pressure? Enough to blow tons of oil out the breather and then up under the rings? Any ideas please? I wil post a pic when I can, but this is from my phone out in the garage...

Click to expand...

I don't even know where that much oil can come from. I don't even think a completely failed valve seal will do that.

You might want to post your general location. Perhaps there is another member who might be able to assist in person.

Sorry if this seems obvious, but have you drained the sump?

the bike is in my dad's garage in MD, just west of frederick. His house is just off Antietam battlefield. I live in south central PA, town called dover, in between york and harrisburg. Today I am going to drain the oil and clean all the screens again, since it may be wet sumping. If still does it, going to pull the oil pump and check it, just in case it isn't returning oil strongly enough. There had been a lot of metal chunks and shavings in it prior to my rebuild, previous owner had catastrophically blown it up at some point. Maybe I failed to clean some part of the engine during rebuild and now there is some sort of clog that is slowing oil return? If not that, I can only guess oil rings are frozen, but the compression rings obviously seem fine. More to follow as the day goes on... Keep any ideas or hints flowing...

Question: I think it is wet sumping. I drained the sump and pulled the plug/metal screen and cleaned it. There was rubber gasketing material in it so I thought problem solved, it was clogged and insufficiently vacating the case, put it back together and started it again... At first it seemed ok- smoked 100 times less. Then after running for a min, started smoking like mad, oil dripping out the vent hose, and misting oil out the ehxaust again. Pulled the plugs and both saturated with oil. So before I drain the sump again, I want input from you norton owners: how much oil should I expect to drain out? I mean if it would hold one cup, and two cups come out when I drain it, then I am wet sumping. So then maybe my oil pump is shot? If the correct amount comes out when I drain it though, does that mean rings? But both of them? Cant imagine that. Not with the compression she has. But I need to keep an open mind. Any hints when it comes to checking an oil pump? I would be in a very bad mood if I had to tear the motor apart again, I am hoping just oil pump maybe? But rather than blindly buy one, just to find out I didnt need one, any suggestions hints, or input? Way to test oil pump? Anything else that could clog that I am not thinking of?

Badly fouled plugs, lots of smoking going on.

No offense, but it there any chance the amal's choke is in the "on" position" on the handlebars?

It is definitely not the choke, this is all oil. There are enough oil puddles in the back alley to prove that. And the plugs are beyond fouled, they are wet with oil.

Are you sure your breather and oil lines are all hooked up correctly? When mine wet sumps, it doesn't matter, it pumps the oil right back into the tank in maybe 10 seconds.

Dave
69S

When you rebuilt did you replace valve guides?
If yes may be loose guide/s in head on intakes, with oil being pulled in around them.
This would account for smoke but also allow for good compression.
With two into one pipe you won't be seeing if one side worse than other but are both plugs equally oily?
Maybe oil delivery hole in rocker spindles not pointing away from engine which can cause over filling of intake valve box which will increase oil sucked around guides.
Also are you sure drain whole from intake valve box down through barrel and into crankcase is clear. Gasket sealant may have plugged causing backup of oil into rocker box and flooding intake guides.

There is a thread on this forum that talks about loose guides and solutions.

Any chance the oil control ring inner slinky ends lapped over rather than butted. This needed to be double checked prior to slipping on barrel. Easy to happen. Will cause smoking.

It would really be good to know if the problem is one or both cylinders.

Bob

>>At first it seemed ok- smoked 100 times less. Then after running for a min, started smoking like mad,<<

Also adds to the possibility of oil accumulating in intake rocker box since smoking doesn't happen immediately.

You may want to probe drain route into crankcase with wire or fill box with oil and see how long it takes to drain down. Hole is small so even if open will probably take a little while.

Another thing to try is to plug off oil supply to rockers and see if it still smokes after running for several minutes. Won't hurt for a little while.
You can use regular un drilled bolts at the connection to head. On a previous thread the size of bolt was described. Be careful to get the right one since it is a Whitworth thread and if you try using anything else you will mess up the head.

If smoke stops with stopping oil to rockers that will probably mean to pull th head, confirm hole down through barrel is working and if it is pull the valves and check the guides.

Bob

The valve guides are new, all new top end everything. New pistons and rings. I remember the rings being set correctly during reassembly, even though that was a year ago. I remember it because the first assembly was wrong and had to do it a few times to get it right. But I am affraid that sitting for a year after rebuild, that it could have gotten seized in the piston, oxidized in place, etc.. But that should resolve the first time she gets hot. And yes, it is both cylinders with the oil problem, can tell that from the spark plugs. There was a bit of exhaust leak too, and it was spitting oil out where the exhaust screws into the head.
I just came out and double checked my oil lines, I know, thought this would be stupid if I had them backwards. But they are correct, and thinking back, yes it was returning oil to the tank. there was a question about whether the breather was hooked up correctly, which I am curious about, because it is just a hose that seemingly goes nowhere. It slips on a port on the backside of the timing area, then just goes downward under the bike. Not unlike my triumph. I did check it to make sure it wasnt clogged, it is not.
Im going to pull the oil pump. It has to be working inefficiently. Moving oil, but not enough causing the wet sump.

When you pulled the sump plug afetr it ran for a while how much oil did come out?

After running for several minutes there really should only be maybe a cup.

If oil is coming in at a rate faster than pumping out (blockage or pump needing lapping in) the oil will accumulate in crankase until crankshaft starts to plow into it and will push oil up bigtime under pistons and cause the misting going out of the vent pipe.

You can also monitor this by taking a careful measurement on dipstick before starting and if the oil level goes down while running it would indicate wetsumping while running. The wetsumping that is normally discussed here is when the bike sits for a while the oil from the tank can drain down through the gears of the oil pump. Wetsumping while running is obviously a much more serious problem.

I see you did mention both plugs fouled so that would be consistant with what I've described.

Bob