pazon timing and Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit with choke - ???

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If pressing the kill switch produces a spark do not have your foot on the kickstart in case it kicks back. Not sure if it does create a spark but it will wake the box up as LAB says.
 
kommando said:
If pressing the kill switch produces a spark do not have your foot on the kickstart in case it kicks back. Not sure if it does create a spark but it will wake the box up as LAB says.
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If the kill switch/button is operated rapidly (Off-On-Off-On) it produces sparks, but if operated slowly, it doesn't.
 
Fast Eddie said:
That ign system sounds sounds like a ridiculous pain in the arse IMHO !
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Once I had read the instructions the outline of the sleep function clicked as being the issue on the B50, with its light flywheel and being a single firing every 720 degrees kick start speeds were critical to getting it to start, hence why the bump start worked and the kick did not unless from a much fitter person. The owner outlined the issue to Pazon and they made a longer than normal sleep version for him which fixed the problem, you have to ring them to ask for it and it also looks like they reduced the rpm from 200 to 100 rpm to help, as this was maybe 8 or 9 years ago that is guesswork.
 
kommando said:
Once I had read the instructions the outline of the sleep function clicked as being the issue on the B50, with its light flywheel and being a single firing every 720 degrees kick start speeds were critical to getting it to start, hence why the bump start worked and the kick did not unless from a much fitter person. The owner outlined the issue to Pazon and they made a longer than normal sleep version for him which fixed the problem, you have to ring them to ask for it and it also looks like they reduced the rpm from 200 to 100 rpm to help, as this was maybe 8 or 9 years ago that is guesswork.
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not familiar with the term "bump start" - ????
 
Could be but the instructions I read were 8 to 9 years ago so relying on a non reliable memory, it did say 200 rpm but can't remember what it was referencing, crank or pickup rotor.
 
Fast Eddie said:
That ign system sounds sounds like a ridiculous pain in the arse IMHO !
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i'm beginning to agree with you on that one. just think about how short a "less than" 3 second period is in relation to a normal person's start sequence. you're standing on the right side of the bike, you lean over the tank, and turn on the fuel, you tickle the carb or carbs, and only then, can you turn on the ignition, and without hesitation, lay into the kick starter - assuming the start lever is in the prime location for starting - all within a less than 3 second window. you are definitely locked into a defined start sequence and you can't procrastinate on any step in that sequence. don't know about you, but unless i'm out in left field here, i'm starting to question this one. I'm wondering if the electronics in the control box are that sensitive that it needs to go into a sleep mode within 3 seconds. I have a working boyer and tri-spark system - do those have the same sleep mode characteristic as the pazon system?

UNLESS, the system is smart enough to wake up when it senses crank or rotor movement. ????
 
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joe czech said:
UNLESS, the system is smart enough to wake up when it senses crank or rotor movement. ????
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At least on the Boyer black box MK3 and 4 plus the Pazon smart fire they all stop sending current to the coils after a set period with no trigger signals. They will all wake up but the number of signals and the rpm is different, the Boyer is one signal and according to John Healy also needs 50 rpm (again not sure if that is crank or magnet rotor rpm) just to get the magnet passing the coil fast enough to generate a signal, the Pazon needs 2 signals as it works out an rpm from the gap between the 2 signals. Can't speak for the digital versions including the Trispark as not studied them, never had an issue with my Boyer red boxed digital ignition for starting so maybe that follows the analogue versions.
 
kommando said:
At least on the Boyer black box MK3 and 4 plus the Pazon smart fire they all stop sending current to the coils after a set period with no trigger signals. They will all wake up but the number of signals and the rpm is different, the Boyer is one signal and according to John Healy also needs 50 rpm (again not sure if that is crank or magnet rotor rpm) just to get the magnet passing the coil fast enough to generate a signal, the Pazon needs 2 signals as it works out an rpm from the gap between the 2 signals. Can't speak for the digital versions including the Trispark as not studied them, never had an issue with my Boyer red boxed digital ignition for starting so maybe that follows the analogue versions.
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good to know. whatever it is, at least they all work with a wake-up mode.
 
joe czech said:
good to know. whatever it is, at least they all work with a wake-up mode.
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Of course, otherwise as you noted, we'd never get the thing to start. With a properly timed engine you'd get 2 pulses with a good kick and the motor should fire up. It's the initial setup (where you're at) that can be frustrating.

You mentioned somewhere that the bike came with a Tri-Spark ignition. Do you have it? Reliability issues aside, they are easy to set up and make a big fat spark. No wake-up mode. After you've verified gross cam timing and rotor integrity I suggest installing the TS to get the old girl running.
 
Joe, if Dave is correct and you have a Tri Spark lying around, do yourself a favour and fit it!

In my first hand experience, starting and low speed running are both notably improved, even when replacing perfectly good alternative ign systems.

You can think about whether to keep or replace it later, after you’ve at least got a running motorcycle!
 
maylar said:
Of course, otherwise as you noted, we'd never get the thing to start. With a properly timed engine you'd get 2 pulses with a good kick and the motor should fire up. It's the initial setup (where you're at) that can be frustrating.

You mentioned somewhere that the bike came with a Tri-Spark ignition. Do you have it? Reliability issues aside, they are easy to set up and make a big fat spark. No wake-up mode. After you've verified gross cam timing and rotor integrity I suggest installing the TS to get the old girl running.
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Fast Eddie said:
Joe, if Dave is correct and you have a Tri Spark lying around, do yourself a favour and fit it!

In my first hand experience, starting and low speed running are both notably improved, even when replacing perfectly good alternative ign systems.

You can think about whether to keep or replace it later, after you’ve at least got a running motorcycle!
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thanks for the input - under consideration. question - not sure all the parts are in the box - all I seem to have is a rotor plate and pickup that installs in the timing case. everything was new, half installed , and partially wired - never activated. doesn't appear there's a control box - need to dig everything out and read thru the instructions.
 
joe czech said:
thanks for the input - under consideration. question - not sure all the parts are in the box - all I seem to have is a rotor plate and pickup that installs in the timing case. everything was new, half installed , and partially wired - never activated. doesn't appear there's a control box - need to dig everything out and read thru the instructions.
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No control box. It's all self contained on the rotor plate. You do need the rotor however.
 
Tri Spark doesn't have a control box.
It's all integrated into the rotor plate.
Sounds like you have it all.
 
MichaelB said:
Tri Spark doesn't have a control box.
It's all integrated into the rotor plate.
Sounds like you have it all.
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here's a cut and paste from an old thread --

Pretty sure this is old
pazon timing and Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit with choke - ???


And this is new
pazon timing and Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit with choke - ???
Click to expand...

seems there is an old version and a new version. what I have is the old version. was the old version problematic? still OK?
 
I've been running a Pazon Sure Fire in my '70 Triumph for 5 years. I can definitely attest that I've started it up to 15-20 seconds
after turning the ignition switch on on numerous occasions. Perhaps newer models are programmed differently.
 
joe czech said:
here's a cut and paste from an old thread --



seems there is an old version and a new version. what I have is the old version. was the old version problematic? still OK?
Click to expand...

Mine was trouble free for 10 years.
 
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