pazon timing and Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit with choke - ???

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joe czech

joe czech

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IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? has anyone installed the factory choke mechanism (cables and associated hardware) to the amal carbs with the Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit?

I've got everything tuned in - fuel, spark, timing, etc, but this puppy doesn't want to start. it's 60-ish here in florida, and I was hoping I could get away without it, but i'm thinking I need to choke them carbs. tickled them puppies and jumped on that kick start till I was blue in the face (sore foot today). got a couple ignition pops, but that was about it.


I really like the madass linkage kit, but if this bike wants and needs choke, then Houston, we have a problem....
 
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Even when starting at minus 2 or 3C (25 to 30f) the chokes were only really needed to keep the mixture rich as the extra fuel from tickling was used up too soon and the bike stalled at the first junction. In Florida I would only use the tickling, if your bike will not start with only tickling in Florida then it suggests other issues than not having chokes, check you timing, air leaks, pilot circuit, fresh fuel etc.
 
kommando said:
Even when starting at minus 2 or 3C (25 to 30f) the chokes were only really needed to keep the mixture rich as the extra fuel from tickling was used up too soon and the bike stalled at the first junction. In Florida I would only use the tickling, if your bike will not start with only tickling in Florida then it suggests other issues than not having chokes, check you timing, air leaks, pilot circuit, fresh fuel etc.
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thanks for the comment - exactly what I was thinking on needing the choke. one thing - I don't have a 100%, warm fuzzy feeling on the timing. just got everything back together - lots of new territory for me - mostly madass linkage and pazon ignition. one thing on the timing - per the instructions, it seems TOO simple. nothing in life's that easy. i'm pretty sure, if not positive, that the timing is dead nuts at 30° BTDC (advanced). fresh gas and squeaky clean carbs. ??? - unless I totally missed something or misunderstood something....

anyone out there that's installed the pazon ignition - how did you set the timing?
 
Until you strobe it the timing cannot be verified, with Boyers at least (of which the Pazon is an updated version, the owners of Pazon are ex Boyer employees) setting it statically normally gives an over advanced timing when strobed and needs retarding by up to 10 degrees.
 
kommando said:
Until you strobe it the timing cannot be verified, with Boyers at least (of which the Pazon is an updated version, the owners of Pazon are ex Boyer employees) setting it statically normally gives an over advanced timing when strobed and needs retarding by up to 10 degrees.
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are you saying that a pazon-norton setup, could be over-advanced, or are you saying it's boyer-norton that can be in an over-advanced condition - or is it both? if i'm over-advanced by up to 10° - that could be a problem. 10 degrees - ??? - I could jump on the starter till the second coming, and she won't start. so, what do you think I need to do here - retard the timing by a number of degrees, and give it another shot, or what?
 
Pazon is an updated Boyer, mainly to sort out the low voltage over advancing so its likely also suffering from the same fault of the static timing not being correct, so retard the timing and try kicking. Be prepared to strobe it before taking it out on the road.
 
Suck
Squeeze
Bang
Blow


Pull the plugs.
Dry? Teaspoon of gas in each hole as a quick acid test.
Wet? troubleshoot.
Etc
Etc
Etc


TEST, don’t guess
 
kommando said:
Pazon is an updated Boyer, mainly to sort out the low voltage over advancing so its likely also suffering from the same fault of the static timing not being correct, so retard the timing and try kicking. Be prepared to strobe it before taking it out on the road.
Click to expand...
OK - I'll try retarding it by 5°, that is static at 25-26° BTDC and see what happens.
 
joe czech said:
IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? has anyone installed the factory choke mechanism (cables and associated hardware) to the amal carbs with the Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit?

I've got everything tuned in - fuel, spark, timing, etc, but this puppy doesn't want to start. it's 60-ish here in florida, and I was hoping I could get away without it, but i'm thinking I need to choke them carbs. tickled them puppies and jumped on that kick start till I was blue in the face (sore foot today). got a couple ignition pops, but that was about it.


I really like the madass linkage kit, but if this bike wants and needs choke, then Houston, we have a problem....
Click to expand...
That is not an indication you need a choke! The most a choke will do on an Amal carb equipped bike is help keep it running once started. I've removed the choke on British bike I've owned including my first when it was my only transportation to college in 1968 in Illinois when the temps easily got down to 0.

Sounds like ignition timing - could be timed on the wrong rotor mark and therefore be 180 out. If this is a new engine build, then maybe valve timing.
 
marshg246 said:
That is not an indication you need a choke! The most a choke will do on an Amal carb equipped bike is help keep it running once started. I've removed the choke on British bike I've owned including my first when it was my only transportation to college in 1968 in Illinois when the temps easily got down to 0.

Sounds like ignition timing - could be timed on the wrong rotor mark and therefore be 180 out. If this is a new engine build, then maybe valve timing.
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yes, i'm beginning to think it is timing. not an new engine build. barn find and abandoned, failed project. been sitting for 6 or 7 years. just trying to get it running. you mentioned 180 out and timing on the wrong rotor. my understanding with pazon (and others), both plugs fire each revolution, so i'm assuming it doesn't matter which timing mark is used - or am I out of left field on this one. as stated, new to most of this...
 
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joe czech said:
so i'm assuming it doesn't matter which timing mark is used
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The wasted spark is every 360, if you have an alternator rotor with 2 marks 180 apart you need to use the correct one or it will not start. Take a spark plug out and use the mark with the piston near the top of its stroke.
 
With a Lucas rotor, the correct mark is opposite the keyway slot. I marked my rotor with magic marker so I know which side to line up...

pazon timing and Madass (Don Pender) Carb Linkage Kit with choke - ???
 
You have not mentioned if you have confirmed your timing scale on the primary with respect to the rotor position at known 30 deg BTDC.
Most folks report the scale is off by at least a few degrees. You need a timing wheel on crank and a piston stop fitted to confirm.
Once set correctly statically engine should start to allow fine adjustment via timing light.
 
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Tornado said:
You have not mentioned if you have confirmed your timing scale on the primary with respect to the rotor position at known 30 deg BTDC.
Most folks report the scale is off by at least a few degrees. You need a timing wheel on crank and a piston stop fitted to confirm.
Once set correctly statically engine should start to allow fine adjustment via timing light.
Click to expand...
haven't confirmed the timing scale. I really should do that and start at ground zero. once I sat down and thought about the engine dynamics, checked TDC and I was timing on the wrong rotor mark. just wasn't thinking.... anyway, everyone - thanks for the help.
 
joe czech said:
yes, i'm beginning to think it is timing. not an new engine build. barn find and abandoned, failed project. been sitting for 6 or 7 years. just trying to get it running. you mentioned 180 out and timing on the wrong rotor. my understanding with pazon (and others), both plugs fire each revolution, so i'm assuming it doesn't matter which timing mark is used - or am I out of left field on this one. as stated, new to most of this...
Click to expand...
Nope! One mark is TDC, the other is BDC - they do not fire every 180 degrees, they fire every 360 degrees. Remember, each cylinder fires once per 720 degrees so two cylinders in this type of engine one fires once each 360 degrees.
 
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