Post Photos of your Norton P11

OldForge · Oct 19, 2015

Saw your Shutterfly album of this year's Barber. Nice work & a lot of it too!

Nice to see you got pix of my bike (the Ugly one) & Beno's...wish there were more Open Twin's riding here in the East. This year we only had me & Beno on P11's, a Matchless, a BSA & a Triumph.

Re your comment: "This year...included vintage off road events for the first time at Barber" Not exactly; I guess it's just been kept a secret. Last year, 2014, was the only year since 2006 that we didn't have Vintage Motocross at Barber, though we did have the Cross Country (wood race/Hare Scrambles) event. We'd been pitting in upper lot C with the VMX track being in what is now Lower C (the Autocross track).

As you know, we're now in Lot D & this venue is quite different: Much tighter & slower...I was in 1st gear most of the time & got 1/2 way up 2d in only 1 spot, which was to clear a tabletop in the track. For those with stock gearing, I'm geared about 1 gear down so my max on this track was about mid way up a stock 1st gear.

Glad you made it over there & got to see a couple of P11's still being used as intended.

Mark in SC

jerrykap · Oct 19, 2015

Many thanks Mark,

Seems like I missed a bunch of people that I wanted to say hi to and you were among them. It's unusual to see 2 P11's in one place ready to compete. The MX track was too short and tight for the heavyweights to really stretch out And I think Beno's only did the cross country event with his, possibly in the hands of another rider?

I do hope our paths will cross again. In a crowd of 69,000+ bike nuts we'll have to plan it a little better. I do hope to make future events there.

All the best and keep your P11 on track! Where it's supposed to be.

Jerry
Davis, CA

OldForge said:
Saw your Shutterfly album of this year's Barber. Nice work & a lot of it too!

Nice to see you got pix of my bike (the Ugly one) & Beno's...wish there were more Open Twin's riding here in the East. This year we only had me & Beno on P11's, a Matchless, a BSA & a Triumph.

Re your comment: "This year...included vintage off road events for the first time at Barber" Not exactly; I guess it's just been kept a secret. Last year, 2014, was the only year since 2006 that we didn't have Vintage Motocross at Barber, though we did have the Cross Country (wood race/Hare Scrambles) event. We'd been pitting in upper lot C with the VMX track being in what is now Lower C (the Autocross track).

As you know, we're now in Lot D & this venue is quite different: Much tighter & slower...I was in 1st gear most of the time & got 1/2 way up 2d in only 1 spot, which was to clear a tabletop in the track. For those with stock gearing, I'm geared about 1 gear down so my max on this track was about mid way up a stock 1st gear.

Glad you made it over there & got to see a couple of P11's still being used as intended.

Mark in SC

p400 · Oct 20, 2015

Thank you Jerry for the Norton P11 photos from this years 2015 Barber event. I have not been able to attend, so these photos are wonderful. Thanks Mark for continuing to keep this great P11 in competition.
Mark you may have posted before, but I will ask anyway, what are the forks and triple clamps? and what are the wheels? Many people have incomplete P11 and could use some technical help from your P11 and experience.

It appears Beno is running the same rear wheel, and I am not familiar with all marques to id this wheel.
Looks like Triumph, but a more specific id would be helpful.

OldForge · Oct 20, 2015

The changes to Beno's bike & mine, from stock P11, are primarily in the interest of weight savings. Both he & I are using a Triumph/BSA conical aluminum rear hub. The prototype P11 use the magnesium version. Both of our frames are unmolested.

Beno is using Betor forks & clamps, I'm using Marzocchi. We both use shoulderless alloy rims, 21" fron & 18" rear (necessary in the east to minimize the mud packing you get on a shouldered rim). We both use a 130/80-18 rear tires & 90/90-21 on the front.

I believe Beno's got the small (2.6 gallon) alloy Norton/Matchless gas tank & I'm using a Yamaha TT500 tank, which is quite a bit shorter than stock, with a P11A dual seat. This allows me to get further forward to load the front, a benefit in some turns & for some starts.

Both of our motors are essentially stock, except for Commando flat top pistons (higher compression & readily available) though I've done a few things for reliability, like lighten & polish the valve train , polish the rods & balance to 84% dry. With these bikes, in the venues in which we ride, enough power is never an issue, throttle & wheel spin control is.

I don't know what Beno's bike weighs but mine, with fuel & oil, has 140 Lbs. on the front wheel & 186 on the rear for a total of 326 Lbs. wet.

Some folks have noted that we're not 'true to the P11'; Beno got his new & it's evolved. I got one new too (serial # 121662), though it was stolen from my storage in Tucson in '81 or '82, & mine is what it would have evolved to over the years.

Mark in SC

jerrykap · Oct 20, 2015

Thanks for more details Mark, I think you, Beno and I belong to a very small group who bought P11's brand new and still are involved with them.

I was just looking at my P11 photos again and this one jumped out at me:

Not even sure how or where I got it but I bet you'll know.

C-ya, Jer

OldForge said:
The changes to Beno's bike & mine, from stock P11, are primarily in the interest of weight savings. Both he & I are using a Triumph/BSA conical aluminum rear hub. The prototype P11 use the magnesium version. Both of our frames are unmolested.

Beno is using Betor forks & clamps, I'm using Marzocchi. We both use shoulderless alloy rims, 21" fron & 18" rear (necessary in the east to minimize the mud packing you get on a shouldered rim). We both use a 130/80-18 rear tires & 90/90-21 on the front.

I believe Beno's got the small (2.6 gallon) alloy Norton/Matchless gas tank & I'm using a Yamaha TT500 tank, which is quite a bit shorter than stock, with a P11A dual seat. This allows me to get further forward to load the front, a benefit in some turns & for some starts.

Both of our motors are essentially stock, except for Commando flat top pistons (higher compression & readily available) though I've done a few things for reliability, like lighten & polish the valve train , polish the rods & balance to 84% dry. With these bikes, in the venues in which we ride, enough power is never an issue, throttle & wheel spin control is.

I don't know what Beno's bike weighs but mine, with fuel & oil, has 140 Lbs. on the front wheel & 186 on the rear for a total of 326 Lbs. wet.

Some folks have noted that we're not 'true to the P11'; Beno got his new & it's evolved. I got one new too (serial # 121662), though it was stolen from my storage in Tucson in '81 or '82, & mine is what it would have evolved to over the years.

Mark in SC

jerrykap · Oct 20, 2015

Back in the day

Hi All,

After seeing how the AHRMA racing P11's were set up for racing in today's world I thought some of you might like to see how they were set up back in the day. Here are some detail shots of the Mike Patrick, AMA District 37, heavyweight hare & hound 1968 & 69 championship P11 (serial number 121013).

Mike told me he preferred the long Norton roadholder forks over the Matchless ones. He said the P11 was the only bike that never put him over the bars and on his head.

They all did the best they could with what they had to work with, just as its done today. Feel free to ask any detail questions.

C-ya, Jer

p400 · Oct 21, 2015

Thank you Jerry, More great P11 photos
Elsinore, early 1968 event....check out open expert

p400 · Oct 21, 2015

Road trip, daily P11 ride, 200 miles. One stop was this toll bridge.
The one-lane, low-water bridge, is one of the only privately-owned bridges of its kind in the country. It allows people in Green Spring to access workplaces, shopping, entertainment and services in Cumberland, Md., and Winchester, Va. At the same time the crossing allows those on the Maryland side a quicker commute to jobs and activities in West Virginia, most notably the largest employer in Green Spring: Koppers – a manufacturer of railroad ties along the CSX railroad mainline.

OldForge · Oct 21, 2015

Per Jerry Kaplan: "Not even sure how or where I got it but I bet you'll know."

Looks like Aonia Pass in GA, one of my favorite venues. It's all natural terrain, allowed to grow & a new track cut with a bush hog each event...sometime up to 2 1/2 or 3 miles/lap. Beno usually lays out the track & is inclined to give us room to let a P11 breathe. For a while he had a nice curved back 'straight' with a kink in it at just the right place for a 3-4 shift & room to air it out a bit in 4th. Now that was a thrill!

We're riding there again Oct 31/Nov 1. Anyone in the area is welcome to come out & to see what it's about or ride with us. On Saturday we'll be riding Trials, TT & 1/8 mile Flat Track. Sunday is Motocross and Cross Country. Google mapping to the place is https://www.google.com/maps/place/Aonia ... f43e02d8c7.

Mark in SC

jerrykap · Oct 21, 2015

Thanks p400,

Mike won a lot of well known races during his career. He's in the District 37 Hall of Fame and is a legend in the San Gabriel Valley MC club.

C-ya, Jer

p400 said:
Thank you Jerry, More great P11 photos
Elsinore, early 1968 event....check out open expert

willh · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Back in the day

jerrykap said:
They all did the best they could with what they had to work with, just as its done today. Feel free to ask any detail questions.

C-ya, Jer

Thank you for posting those photos. Do you know how much the swing arm was stretched?
Do you have a photo of the front down tubes from in front?
Any where else that the frame was reinforced or braced that's not in the photos?

Thanks,
Will

jerrykap · Oct 22, 2015

Re: Back in the day

Willi,

The swingarm was lengthened 1 1/2".

Here is a photo of the front assembled to the bike. Mike used the long road holder forks as fitted to the Atlas Scrambler and N15's. He liked them better:

Hope this helps.

PS The front tire is a Goodyear grasshopper. It was the only one I could find in the size that Mike used, 4:50 X 19". Originally Mike used a 4:50 X 19" Dunlop trials universal that was too badly rotted to keep on and as much as I've searched I've never been able to find a good used or new one in that size.

willh said:
jerrykap said:

They all did the best they could with what they had to work with, just as its done today. Feel free to ask any detail questions.

C-ya, Jer

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting those photos. Do you know how much the swing arm was stretched?
Do you have a photo of the front down tubes from in front?
Any where else that the frame was reinforced or braced that's not in the photos?

Thanks,
Will

willh · Oct 22, 2015

Thanks you, much appreciated

I get the front engine mount reinforcement, but am curious as to the reinforced front down tubes,(with the half tubes brazed on). Cracks? Accident brake or bend the tubes? Do you know the story behind that?

That's a great piece of history that you have there 8)

Thanks again,
Will

jerrykap · Oct 22, 2015

W.

Not 100% certain but, the front down tubes seem to have been repaired and reinforced in the field as required. All that leaping about in high speed desert conditions took it's toll on many stressed areas. Anchoring the front brake torque arm with only the 2 1/4'" X 20 front fender bolts in the lower fork slider is another area that's just waiting to break. Mike said he never used much front brake anyway.

C-ya, Jer

PS I feel privileged to be it's current custodian. And it's a lot of fun to fire it up and show it off with a big rooster tail of dirt shooting off the back wheel.

willh said:
Thanks you, much appreciated

I get the front engine mount reinforcement, but am curious as to the reinforced front down tubes,(with the half tubes brazed on). Cracks? Accident brake or bend the tubes? Do you know the story behind that?

That's a great piece of history that you have there 8)

Thanks again,
Will

p400 · Oct 24, 2015

On the road is a blast to explore new towns and places.
Small towns have the best displays.
How about 1/3 of a 1960 Buick?

Some guys are on more modern bikes,
as they are traveling world wide.

And other guys are on old, loud, vintage bikes!
What did you say?

p400 · Oct 25, 2015

A ride on Wednesday found horses to impress..............they were not impressed.
Replaced the 2010 Yuasa lead acid battery with a new 2015 AGM from Battery Mart.

mudplugger · Nov 8, 2015

great photos, I will start trying to get a few more of my ride out on camera and post. I ride out quite a lot with 2 other p 11s and an N15.

mudplugger · Nov 19, 2015

good day riding with mates on P11 s and N15

Code:

mudplugger · Nov 19, 2015

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mudplugger · Nov 19, 2015

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another great day out with my son on my commando and me on the p11

Click to expand...

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