Simplifying the 961

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF · Mar 14, 2022

lcrken said:
I've seen at least two FCR conversions on modern 961s. This is one of them. I don't recall who did the other one.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/one-evil-norton-commando-961-by-holographic-hammer-80179.html#agal_2

Ken

How bout this 880 Ken , I came across by chance at “ Moto fantasy “ bike rental place in Oregon , this bike was a prize in “ Cycle world “ some years ago

City Garage · Mar 14, 2022

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
How bout this 880 Ken , I came across by chance at “ Moto fantasy “ bike rental place in Oregon , this bike was a prize in “ Cycle world “ some years ago View attachment 85775 View attachment 85776

Little more clearance on the 75 Commando Frame for FCR's

lcrken · Mar 15, 2022

BritTwit said:
Ken,

I've seen this one before.
It exists only in Photoshop.

Right you are. Fooled me. I just now checked out the "builder's" FB page, where he explains that it is just a design idea.

I still recall seeing pictures of another custom 961 with carbs, a real bike this time, but I can't seem to find it again. I think it was a builder in the UK.

Ken

lcrken · Mar 15, 2022

There are couple of other pictures of Kenny Dreer's prototypes with carbs in this thread from a few years back:

Carbed 961

Pretty sure this is PhotoShopped, but I like that someone else is thinking about it too. FCRs on a 961, Yeah that's it! Hosted on Fotki

www.accessnorton.com

Ken

lcrken · Mar 15, 2022

Well, after a few hours of searching, I'm starting to think that the custom 961 with conversion to carbs that I remember was just another senior moment. All I can find are more pictures of Kenny Dreer's prototypes. So I guess we're still waiting for someone to do it. Mine is running well enough with modified EFI that I'm not planning to give it a try.

Ken

BritTwit · Mar 15, 2022

Ken,

You're not thinking of the "Swindler" 961, are you?

City Garage · Mar 15, 2022

BritTwit said:
Ken,

You're not thinking of the "Swindler" 961, are you?

that one has throttle bodies on it as well

worntorn · Mar 17, 2022

robs ss said:
I still remember laughing at the plastic throttle-body covers on a new Triumph 3 or 4 years ago.
They had been made to look like monoblocs - even had the fake brass coloured tops.
How low can you go?

They are made of alloy. I thought they might be made of the same heavy monkey metal as the Monoblocs used, but it turns out they are actually a very nicely made aluminium alloy casting. So no weight to be saved by changing them for shop made items, unfortunately.
I recall a Vincent owner in Winthrop mocking those covers on my R. I told him that he needn't worry about my bike, he should instead do something about the quart of oil that was slathered on his shoes and back tire!

Glen

BritTwit · Mar 17, 2022

worntorn said:
They are made of alloy. I thought they might be made of the same heavy monkey metal as the Monoblocs used, but it turns out they are actually a very nicely made aluminium alloy casting. So no weight to be saved by changing them for shop made items, unfortunately.
I recall a Vincent owner in Winthrop mocking those covers on my R. I told him that he needn't worry about my bike, he should instead do something about the quart of oil that was slathered on his shoes and back tire!

Glen

I do like the faux covers, they add an additional styling accent to the motor.
Of course they are not real Amals because the bike is not a real classic, but a modern "interruption" of a classic design.
These styling accents are simply an homage to a bygone age.
In an age when new bikes look more and more like plastic encrusted spaceships, the classic accents work for me.

worntorn · Mar 17, 2022

I guess a cover was needed and some young UK engineer thought the monobloc shape would be a bit of a hoot.
It's an unimportant item on the bike, but people tend to get hung up on small fashion items.
What is important to me is what happens when I roll the throttle on or chuck the bike into a corner. It also needs to keep doing that for many thousands of miles without breaking down.
The modern Triumphs look great and deal with those demands very well.

Glen

BritTwit · Mar 17, 2022

If Jinlang produce a "Flying Dragon" 961, maybe they will swap out the Jenvey throttle bodies for faux Amal (Keihin) TB's.
Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Stephen_Spencer · Mar 17, 2022

Really like the Triumph Thruxton R (especially the TFC). It is everything Glen states and more, but in my opinion does not need styling fakery like the faux covers. But, you know what they say about opinions…..!

The Metal Slug by FMW has undergone significant simplification, but they didn’t tackle the EFI system. I’m loving the styling apart from the drooping rear end - not sue about that.

Metal Slug 961 by FMW

Cafe racers, scramblers, street trackers, vintage bikes and much more. The best garage for special motorcycles and cafe racers.

www.inazumacafe.com

worntorn · Mar 17, 2022

Since the topic of those Triumph throttle bodies comes up fairly often, this is what the entire housing looks like-

The end cap reads " Triumph established 1902"
Not so easy to change as I thought. If one was concerned about the design, the top caps could be turned down to smooth and milled flat on top.
Other than that I would leave it be, it works perfectly and is a nice smooth alloy casting.
They did much the same with the previous generation throttle bodies,only those copied the early 790 865 Keihin carb shapes, quite complex. No one seemed fussed over that, or perhaps just didn't notice.

TonyA · Mar 18, 2022

Stephen_Spencer said:
Really like the Triumph Thruxton R (especially the TFC). It is everything Glen states and more, but in my opinion does not need styling fakery like the faux covers. But, you know what they say about opinions…..!

The Metal Slug by FMW has undergone significant simplification, but they didn’t tackle the EFI system. I’m loving the styling apart from the drooping rear end - not sue about that.

Metal Slug 961 by FMW

Cafe racers, scramblers, street trackers, vintage bikes and much more. The best garage for special motorcycles and cafe racers.

www.inazumacafe.com

View attachment 85834

Is that a Norton or handmade gat tank ? Very nice though !

BritTwit · Mar 18, 2022

worntorn said:
Since the topic of those Triumph throttle bodies comes up fairly often, this is what the entire housing looks like-

The end cap reads " Triumph established 1902"
Not so easy to change as I thought. If one was concerned about the design, the top caps could be turned down to smooth and milled flat on top.
Other than that I would leave it be, it works perfectly and is a nice smooth alloy casting.
They did much the same with the previous generation throttle bodies,only those copied the early 790 865 Keihin carb shapes, quite complex. No one seemed fussed over that, or perhaps just didn't notice.

These throttle bodies are also ride-by-wire.
I was told by my dealer that there is little on the TBs that can be changed out.
If they fail, they have to be replaced.
He said the cost of a new set is $1,900.

Fast Eddie · Mar 18, 2022

BritTwit said:
These throttle bodies are also ride-by-wire.
I was told by my dealer that there is little on the TBs that can be changed out.
If they fail, they have to be replaced.
He said the cost of a new set is $1,900.

Cheaper to fit a pair of monoblocks

worntorn · Mar 18, 2022

There's a thought .
Send a note to Burlen, we need Monoblocs in 44 mm

Fast Eddie · Mar 18, 2022

Thems big uns!

In that case, whats required is a side draft Weber DCOE.

Obviously.

Jon · Mar 18, 2022

BritTwit said:
Thank you.
I have suggested just such a conversion before.
Should be a pretty easy work for those with the talent and time on their hands.

1. Ditch the throttle bodies, for a set of port matched, rubber insulated intake manifolds, and a set of 41mm FCR's
Replace the EFI pump assembly in tank with an orifice plate which has a petcock to feed carbs
Enterprising individual can connect a micro switch to petcock to send signal to low fuel indicator light when RESERVE position is selected on the petcock.

2. Ditch the EFI ECU ignition, replace with a Triumph igniter box from a pre-2009 Scrambler (carbed - 270 degree engine.)
The Triumph igniter box has inputs for ignition switch, crankshaft position sensor, neutral switch, clutch lever switch, kill switch, TPS.
The box has outputs to coils, and tach.

2. And of course, a supercharger.

Was thinkin the same kinda thing myself - but without the Supercharger, mate ..

I realise the original concept would've been a carb setup so it must be reverse engineerable, for those owners that don't sit comfortable with the electronicals.
And why not run the carbs off the pump instead of modifying to a tap? My '93 900ss had a pump in the tank servicing a coupla 'MickyRoonies'.

However, despite thinkin about it and the temptation to try it, I'll just ride it as it is for the time being.

BritTwit · Mar 18, 2022

Jon said:
Was thinkin the same kinda thing myself - but without the Supercharger, mate ..
I realise the original concept would've been a carb setup so it must be reverse engineerable, for those owners that don't sit comfortable with the electronicals.
And why not run the carbs off the pump instead of modifying to a tap? My '93 900ss had a pump in the tank servicing a coupla 'MickyRoonies'.

However, despite thinkin about it and the temptation to try it, I'll just ride it as it is for the time being.

FCR's are not designed to be feed fuel by a HP EFI pump.
Besides, making a blanking plate to replace the pump housing is simple, and a petcock is true classic design that would actually work.
Not like them nasty fake Triumph TB covers.

I think we will all be a lot older before someone on this forum takes their lovely 961, and chops it to pieces to do a carb conversion.
But it is certainly nice to fantasize about it.

Simplifying the 961

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