New laws in Australia gone mad

highdesert said:

im sorry man but WTF???????????

this is about the theft of our freedoms and right to talk to whoever the fuck i want!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

nice rant, seriously

but I was looking for concrete suggestions of how the authorities there could be handling things better

Click to expand...

Quite simple really
charge and convict individuals who commit an offence by good policing.
The inadequate investment in law enforcement by a government should not result in a cart-blanch application of laws to innocent citizens of a country

its not a rant either fella
if your freedom was taken from you late one Tuesday night at 230 in the morning what would you do?

Some would take it up the ass i spose but there are still some men of metal who will stand up to injustice where ever it raises its head. This is not about OMCG's at all. i dont give a flying fuck about them. i leave them alone and they leave me alone. i suggest you watch the link i posted to understand how these laws can be applied to joe citizen

then tell me its just a rant

Sounds to me like motorcyclists need to practice some civil disobedience. Gather up in groups of three by the thousands and take to the road.

Just an idea.

Russ

highdesert said:

ok, so what exactly should the "authorities, the police" be doing to counteract rogue motorcyclists and groups?

granted, initial response is WTF and anger about decent law abiding riders being pulled over...

should the police do "nothing"?

surely they are fed up with complaints from the public about jerks on bikes giving all bikers a bad name

again, what you believe they should be doing differently to respond to what is an obvious problem?

Click to expand...

Back in the early 60's, anyone who rode was automatically classified as a "bad a#sed no good". We would stop and assist any motorist who appeared to be in distress. Some guys had calling cards that said " You have been assisted by ...***... motorcycle club". This, and the Honda ads..." You meet the nicest people on a Honda" went a long way to change public opinion.

We got a lot of suspicious looks from distressed motorists when we first offered to help, but they had a different opinion when we left. It may be time to start another public relations campaign such as this.

Ancient Maori Proverb . Prison is where the big criminals put the little criminals .

texasSlick said:

I may be getting off thread, but the police state starts with gun confiscation.....how has that worked out in AU?

Click to expand...

No problems owning long arms. No semi auto or full auto of any calibre permitted. Licensing and gun/ammo storage is very strict. Short arms are a special license.

Nortiboy said:

texasSlick said:

I may be getting off thread, but the police state starts with gun confiscation.....how has that worked out in AU?

Click to expand...

No problems owning long arms. No semi auto or full auto of any calibre permitted. Licensing and gun/ammo storage is very strict. Short arms are a special license.

Click to expand...

Very large drop in both murders and suicides. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... australia/

Well there ya go, it is same logic to out law motorcycles to lower the insurance rates and loss of life and limb significantly. One aspect behind helmet and seat belt laws might be State's investing in the insurance company stock. If no fear from a higher power or being able to relate to others some what as your self, then its ok to do what ever as long as not caught then civilization at risk. Science has evidence some people just born nil regard to others, as well as some forced one way or another to join in. If there is nil hope of improvement in life to look forward too, then what's to lose? Recent science study found only two ways for gun control to work in practice, one make sure absolutely none remain or that about absolutely everyone is required to carry. Ironic how a motorcycle hobby escape route leads to such depressing subjects. People are natural pack animals so takes over whelming force to control artificially.

Will they pull up FOUR CARS if theyre seen DRIVEING TOGETHER ! 8) :lol: :mrgreen:

highdesert said:

im sorry man but WTF???????????

this is about the theft of our freedoms and right to talk to whoever the fuck i want!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

nice rant, seriously

but I was looking for concrete suggestions of how the authorities there could be handling things better

Click to expand...

It really dosen't matter. Politicians rarely listen to the people they claim to represent and for the majority of time have ulterior motives for whatever they do. A common policy is diversionary tactics, stirring your average morons emotions about an inconsequential subject which has very little effect on the publics circumstances. They are always pointing the finger at scapegoats, who come in all forms, to blame for their incompetence. Politicians never learn from previous politicians mistakes.

If engineers behaved like your typical politician we'd still be riding around on the same design of bikes built in 1910. I find it strangely comforting that there appears to be little difference between politicians around the world. At least you know where they stand.

DogT, In today's newspaper our lady Governor General Quentyn Bryce said that she is dedicating the rest of her tenure to establishing the rights of Australian citizens. We don't have a Bill Of Rights, it is something our politicians and police do not like. Establishing it has always been opposed by the control freaks among us. There is the ever present conundrum of the balance between democracy and control, it is from top to bottom in our society right down to workplaces and even families. Also religion gets involved - most are basically authoritarian. The game of the anti-bikie laws is not over yet by a long chalk.
Most of this s tuff started in Queensland where the state Premier is an e x-army officer, and a member of the Liberal Party - a party which always plays the law & order card to stay in power. What it is primarily about what a bunch of idiots wearing colours having a punch up in the main street of a tourist area. - BIG DEAL ? It is an excuse and a cover-up of government incompetence. It is like the example given about the aborigines and asylum seekers - 'Look over there !'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhY9PBceqYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OwGMtwK0j0

My wife says if a huge number of people just refuse a law it will eventually be changed. In the meantime of rights charter creation that's what you Aussies need to do. Gandhi proved it could be done.They can't throw the entire pop. of Aussie motorcyclists in jail. You're all descendants of ex-cons anyways so breaking this law should come easy for you . If a law doesn't work then break/brake it. Have your lawyers team numbers handy. Biggest and best mouth that money can buy wins. "The reasonable man sees the world and he adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man sees the world and expects it to adapt to him.Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man".That's her insight but not her quote.. Here in Canada we have a presumption of innocence until found guilty ,also a Charter of Rights.

Just remembered that we had a law a few years ago declaring some motorcycle groups as criminal organizations such as the Big Red Machine /Angels but then it was taken to court and overturned as I recall the defense being several members had no criminal records so -how could that be. The judge agreed . Correct me if wrong ,memory stuff. :|

bluemax said:

They intend to pull over law abiding riders and harass anyone that rides a motorcycle in a group of three or more.

Unless you do the following each and every time you go out for a ride.

"Motorcycle riders will now have to ring a police hotline number if they want to ride in groups of three or more in peace."

Click to expand...

I'd suggest that all Aussie bikers obey that law to the extent that if you are even thinking - perhaps once an hour - of taking such a ride you call that hot line.

Where is your sense of humour. In the bikies the police have worthy adversaries, and while they are attacking them how will the police maintain their lifestyles ? In our area there are two bikie gangs, one looks fairly straight, the other is into business enterprises. The police recently started chasing the straight group looking for guns. The biggest service station and convenience store in our area is owned by an ex-detective who is still trying to avoid prosecution over some extremely serious matters. All this stuff will resolve itself, however in the meantime the big political parties will capitalize on it. It is possible that they will shoot themselves in the foot playing this game. I have not met many dumb bikie gang members, they are not your usual opposition in socially irritating issues.

I'd suggest that all Aussie bikers obey that law to the extent that if you are even thinking - perhaps once an hour - of taking such a ride you call that hot line.

Click to expand...

Will take major biker population to cooperate or the above would only work for so long, so if effective at first, then would become labeled as "terrorist phone calls" and then arrested for interfering with police or national security matters. Bad bikers have spoiled it for everyone for quite a while again. Big rallies in support of each biker falsely arrested might change the policy but better be sure its really an innocent biker being supported. Oh yeah forget, must get permission before a gathering, never mind. If policy continues to punish whole class for a few then maybe we can expect some bargain bikes to show up?

Hobot, for the average honest citizen, the Australian police are not a problem. You need to know the system. If they pull you up and start to bounce around, you should never get smart, however simply ask them to call the DUTY OFFICER. Every area has one in control and he is duty bound to give you a fair hearing. If he doesn't then the ombudsmen, and politicians get involved. However I've never heard of anything going that far. They usually will not call him. ( If you call for their Sargeant, he will always protect his men.) However if you commit a felony, and the detectives let you go, you can find yourself with the situation that whenever they stop you, you have to pay them money - that's when you move interstate. Personally, I never have a problem with them and usually end up having a fairly casual conversation with them. Their jobs seem to bore then shitless. However the police women are something else - they always do their job, and you won't get away with anything. They are really great if you need their help.

[/quote]
Politicians never learn from previous politicians mistakes.
[/quote]

Politicians don't make mistakes. Just ask them! While this comes off as merely a smart-@55 comment, there's something in the mind of high-rollers, not only in the political sphere, but in business and the acting circles, that affects how scruples are viewed, especilally as it applies to them. Look at the recent spate of large corporate types that routinely are sent to prison for all sorts of financial crimes, the actors and sports figures that feel it's alright to sexually assault others, and our political leaders.
One that hits close to home for me is Senator Larry Craig, who, while in the nation's capitol, was caught by an undercover in a men's room sting. His first statement upon being confronted by the undercover was "Don't you know who I am? I'm a senator!" as if that should exonerate him from the laws that help maintain civility. While I don't care to get into a discussion about his sexual bent, the point being that he figures he should be okay to do whatever he pleases, damn the law of the masses. These are the types that are in control. What type of mindset wants to be the ruler of a nation? That's the last person that should be in charge!
I pray that something can be done to reverse the recent actions towards my Aussie brothers, and I hope that the States can learn before it happens to us. In the meantime, our politicians are doing a great job at keeping us distracted...

Hobot, for the average honest citizen...

Click to expand...

When we interact with some police-executive authority - they all have to "assume-presume" everyone is guilty until proven innocent enough or in debt enough not to bother with just then. Police have to live in their own world as they can't get too friendly with the public they may have to charge properly or improperly d/t orders from above. All the view's presented so far can and do apply but in US [not same place-thing as USA] the court system can also make money on charges even if the charges later dismissed. So motives to hunt bikers or others minding their own business comes from many directions at once. On stops I just give a few facts about me as polite as can be so half the time w/o driver license and pistol carry just get let go. The events I get ticketed on, about half the time get dismissed, the other half I may pay off or are still in court for a year or so. Seems like I go half a decade w/o notice then get a few in a row, like this year.

Bad bikers are not a stable bunch even if a club lasts a while its leaders and members shift or get removed, so hopefully the extra attention on the 'average honset' biker will only last long enough for gangs to get a new area of kix or turf war settled or new criminal activity going that don't bother the image of motorcyclist gatherings.

I only see world situation decaying from the planet itself to the political-bankster realms and those trying to do the right thing get ganged up on. My simpleton view is about 1/3 people will actively help others while about 1/3 out to take some advantage of others with the rest opportunistic fence sitters. I'm a long time student of this stuff and know too much about it - its the most disgusting-depressing subject there is, so have tried to drop out-dodge it all and have some fun with the deck chairs long as i can while the ship flounders and goes under. Ain't holding breath for divine or ET intervention either.

Best wishes for safe journey's and not being in wrong place at wrong time.

acotrel said:

for the average honest citizen, the Australian police are not a problem.

Click to expand...

Enough said