Handmade Tanks - Singh Precisions

I've been following this thread and it seemed strange to me that Singh contacted through Dave, a guy who isn't even active on Norton Access. No offense Dave, but either you have been duped or you are a shill for Singh.

Singh's website and Facebook page looks legit, but he could have taken pictures of other's work...or bought a few tanks from another manufacturer.

The fact that no one else here substantiates what Dave has said is also telling.

I hope I'm wrong, but this just does not seem legit.

Latest update on my Prod Racer tank from Singh. It did not arrive when he promised so I contacted him again by email and his response was there was a minor issue with invoicing which he fixed and I would have it by last Wednesday. It's now Friday, I know it is only two days later but I get excuse after excuse. Will contact him for an assignment/shipping number and try to trace it that way. Will keep you informed.

Its almost a week since ,and no response from India ? Mayby one British supplier will invest [considerable dosh] in tank production ,Joe :?: :roll:

It appears the bashed out on a sand bag is not good enough. Looking at the welding underneath ..the 7 year old's have not quite mastered it yet :lol:

Looks to me that Joe dropped the tank project because he has been in business long enough to
know what sells, for how much and what the profit level will be.
Making a tank in the UK cost too much, he would sell too few, and the profit level would insure
that he was dead before the project broke even.

Emgo seems to be able to make a decent product at a level that will generate enough sales to
make the effort profitable. Now maybe they will consider the Interstate tank.

How many Norton owners are willing to buy one? Probably not really all that many.

Yes the dies will be expensive , i served my time building power press's ,for British clearing ie BMC car parts .the dies for roof and bonnet where massive! I think with modern 4 axis millers the task would be a much lower cost , the setter programs the machine and then stands back...solid carbide cutters will cut much faster . But as you say sales may be poor. I would make the tanks from alloy, because the mild steel dies would be a lot cheaper than carbon steel.

Just think that the original dies would have been made by a skilled toolmaker and hand finished with both parts being carefully matched to each other then they ended up thrown in a skip somewhere

Yes, it makes me cringe , there was hundreds chucked away for scrap money :evil:

Andy_B said:

Just think that the original dies would have been made by a skilled toolmaker and hand finished with both parts being carefully matched to each other then they ended up thrown in a skip somewhere

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I did my apprenticeship as a toolmaker but I've never actually worked as one because as soon as I finished my training I was shifted onto what they called the International Division and lost a few years travelling the World commissioning steam turbines.

A few years later I was machining the press crowns on British Clearing presses using portable machining equipment in the press shops rather than them going for refurbishment in a factory after the original site had closed down and very few people had the resources to strip the press down then find the original datums and machine them in a workshop. That work paid for more than one motorbike so I've got no complaints but now I'm back to the beginning and working on steam turbines :roll:

So You have heard of Cowlishaw Walker? I built 250 ton press clutchs . 1966-1971

Sorry but they don't ring a bell. We did a lot of work on Clearings presses and the big earner was on smaller Minster double action presses used in the canning industry. We used to bore out the Clearings press crowns quite regularly plus we often bored the small end on the con rods to accept bushes but the critical part was making sure one bore wasn't lower/higher than the other side so the top part came down out of line.

We often had to machine the crankshaft on both the flywheel and the clutch sides minimum to clean up then recut the keyways either in the original positions or at 90 degrees to the originals if they were too badly worn on the sides. With the Minster presses we came up with a method of reclaiming the beds where the bottom die set had ribs on them and they fretted the bed so the die bounced a bit and when that happened we milled a series of slots across the bed, fitted high carbon keys in the slots and then blued them in with scrapers and engineers blue until they were parallel with the tool sets to with 0.0004".

I don't miss doing the work on the Minsters because when the keys wore we'd be expected to go to wherever in the World the plant was and bed in a new set of keys in next to no time at all and the clients engineers would expect miracles because the material used for the cans is so thin the tolerances ore tiny.

In Situ machining is great fun and when you get a really tricky one then sort it out you walk away thinking you've done a good job. I've progressed over the years and I'm now a project manager running major power station outages but I still try to get as much time as possible on the tools with the guys and they take the piss out of me mercilessly when I pull my overalls on and stand there swearing at them because they've needed me to help out

Hey All,

Firstly, I thank Jerry & Farrokh for getting my membership request approved. I wanted to participate in this discussion several times, but was waiting for my approval since October.
I have addressed the topics and Issues that have come up in this discussion independently below –

Interstate Tank + Stamping – Thou it’s a lot easier to use a press for the interstate bottom panels, but unfortunately, the interstate tank isn’t always in demand. In the last year, I sold just 8 interstate tanks. Considering that, its not viable for me or any other seller to invest a Good amount of $$ in a costly stamping setup and use it only a few times in a year.
On the contrary, the CB750 tanks I offer are touching 3 digits in Sales no.s in the last year alone. To keep up with the demand of those tanks I do have Flow forming & a Stamping setup.
As for the bottom panels being welded instead of pressed, I agree, stamping the panels will be a lot better, but as far as my understanding goes, if the tank can hold 5 psi of pressure, the welds are strong enough to endure all vibrations and last a long time. Especially when they aren’t sanded or buffed out.
Another option, to provide even better panel integrity is to have no niches or presses and have a straight Slightly broader under tunnel. Thou you end up with a tad lower fuel capacity, but with no joints or niches, its integrity & strength are even better.
Please feel free to correct me or add your inputs here.

Setting up Presses & Stamps – I am willing to put in the ALL the amount involved and set up the presses needed for the roadster, interstate and other tanks we believe have a demand amongst us (Norton enthusiasts) in Vegas or Portland.
That’s the easier side of the equation, on the other side we have the Big question – How many tanks will we sell to cover the costs of everything + give us an extra buck for beer ?
@ 800-825 $ a tank (brushed, no cap or taps)
The stamping only works out if we are looking at atleast 30-35 Tanks a month, consistently for at least the first full year.
In my opinion, If we were to Compare One Hand made tank to ONE stamped tank, there won’t be much of a difference or variations in durability, integrity or Shape. However, if we were to Compare 50 Handmade tanks to 50 stamped ones, The handmade ones will not be as consistent and may vary slightly from each other, but the pressed 50 tanks will be totally identical. But still, the handmade ones will not be weaker or lacking structural strength. Fitting/mounting will be spot on for handmade or Stamped tanks as all of them can/will be tested on a running commando.
Therefore, unless the Sales No.s are big, Stamps are just too costly.


Who makes Singh’s Tanks – As said clearly on my website, it is I and no one else who custom hand makes and offers all the products available on my website. We have no outsourcing going on anywhere whatsoever. Any of you guys are more than welcomed to come over to Vegas or Portland (when I am there) and see how I do the work, from scratch till the end, all under one roof, while listening to Johnny Cash.

Lack of Communication – As Dave & Farrokh have already posted, I am not doing that great after my stroke in October. Recovery is slow and treatment is taking its own sweet time. I am officially not in work/business till at least Feb Mid/end, Depending on how everything goes.
I stopped accepting any custom orders since October, but I totally understand the pain of Clients like Graham who ordered their custom parts before October but didn’t get their parts on the dates promised. I tried to stay in touch with Graham whenever I got a chance (between treatments phases) but needless to say, my replies were inconsistent, fueled the frustration.
When I look back now, I think why I just didn’t refund the amount I owed Graham for the time being, and re accepted the order once I was back at a 100 %... Well, initially I didn’t know that it would take 5 months for me to recover. But however, a mistake is a mistake. No excuses or explanation needed further. As a seller, I accept & apologies for the shortcomings.

Why Did Dave post on my Behalf – Dave Smith is a biker I met when he was doing his ‘world tour’ on his 1965 Ducati back in 2005-6. He is active guy on Brit Iron too. He and I are good friends and have a history of misadventures in/around Portland.
It was Dave who initially informed me about this thread on AN when it began. As I said above, I replied thru Dave as my membership wasn’t approved for a long time. I have a number of friends here on AN, anyone could have replied on my behalf. I think it’s a bit unfair to Question Dave’s stand on this.
If I wanted to scam folks for money, I could simply send you all a ‘you have won a million dollars from a Nigerian prince’ email, Why go the hard way and spend years trying to offer custom handmade alloys.
Above all, I humbly ask one question, Have Singh or Singh Precisions duped anyone of their money in the last 2 decades? ANYONE ?
I publically dare anyone to come forward and say Yes.
With that being said, I agree that there is a stigma attached to the third world sellers and their practices. As I said in my last message (thru Dave), I too have been duped & overcharged not once but more than thrice when ordering bike parts. So I know how it feels to put in the Cash first.
To further reinforce my ‘non-scammer’ stand, I offered a FREE tank to Farrokh, no pre payment, no shipping fee, Totally Free from ANY costs, on just one condition – If just ONE (or more) AN users can Back Farrokh & I on this project. Below is the message copied from my last msg on this thread on 23rd Nov –

.…….Being in this industry for long, I can get more clients/buyers to post their reviews here. However, I suggest a lot more efficient way of moving further on this topic -
I am still very much open for the same option I offered to SvenSven (Farrokh). I am willing to send a Tank or any other of my product, all on my expenses, including shipping, to Farrokh or any person users of this forum collectively agree upon. Once the tank is delivered, it can be inspected, tested and a Bare knuckle honest review should be posted here on AN for everyone. Once the review is complete, I will pay for the return shipping and have the Tank picked up and sent to my Facility.
If this sounds Fair enough, I am ready to roll
Sincerely,
Singh
http://www.singh-precisions.com

It was a bit surprising that even after close to 70 posts on this thread, no one apart from Farrokh vowed to go ahead with this deal. As a seller, I am ready to ship a TOTALLY FREE tank for inspection at anyone’s doorstep, still there is just Farrokh willing to talk about it.
Thou I was/am out of action since October but honestly, I was a bit put off by it. Since this thread got so much attention, I was really hoping for at least one more guy Backing Farrokh & I on this project.
No offence meant, but I am unknown to most of you guys here on AN, just as you guys are unfamiliar with Me. I as a seller also fear the slight possibility of losing the tank and all the expenses involved at the end of this deal.
However, with that being said, I will still custom make a tank for Farrokh by Feb End anyhow. I am a man of my word, just waiting to get back to a 100% (by Feb end hopefully).

Graham’s Norvil Tank –Graham finally got the tank.. (pics attached)
Unfortunately, the tank doesn’t go well with the Norvil Seat Graham wishes to use with the Tank. The tank I sent is meant to be used with the interstate seat, the Norvil seat is 2 inches shorter. Its indeed a mistake on my part (reasons explained in the beginning) as I should have confirmed the seat details prior to shipping the tank. My mistake, I totally accept.
I do have longer Norvils tanks in stock which are meant to be used with the Norvil seats. I have offered a brand new tank to Graham, with a guaranteed 7 day delivery (fedex) + complimentary set of alloy side covers or else, a full Refund.
Graham has been utterly patient & understanding even thou the project took a much longer time than I committed to. I highly appreciate it. I hope he will be kind enough to accept the new tank.

I am also doing a Lyta Tank for Steve Smith (not sure whats his AN id). Steve ordered a set of commando sidecovers and was satisfied with them once he got em. Thereafter he wanted a Lyta style tank but was a bit reluctant to pay upfront. I am doing a tank for him for NO PRE PAYMENT.. (pics attached). He has agreed to wait till end of Feb and pay once AFTER he gets the tank.

I am also doing a Custom rickman inspired tank with a built in oil tank for a client who is getting his one of kind commando done up at Colorado Norton works. Once I am done with the tank, I will request Matt at CNW to provide an honest review here at AN for all to see if possible.

Again, The tank for Farrokh (the guy who started this thread) will be the first one I will work on when I join work in Feb. I will post detailed pics as I go along and ship the tank to Farrokh, All on my expenses. I will request him to post an honest review once he gets it.

I am also doing a Tank for a rider in AU who is about to Sue Wilcox for a custom tank he ordered but didn’t get it. To those who are unfamiliar, Evan Wilcox is THE master of alloy fabrication and one of the most reputed, well respected and a Name to swear by in the industry. He has been doing custom work for as far as I can remember. I cannot even dare to question Evan’s stand here, but, As I said, sometimes issues do come up. We as a seller try and provide the best way to move forward. Its inconvenient for both parties, totally agreed. But its not very often that we face such issues.

Now since my Membership is approved, I am here to answer all your queries anytime. After all, all of us are here for the love & craze of our bikes, not to make an extra Buck by duping a fellow biker.

Best Regards
Singh

I remember fitting the two gib heads at 90 degrees in the clutch spinner plates , they where red leaded in . when fully driven home the head had to be a certain distance from the plate, to get them out again. I think the key angle was 1/8 per foot, some had to be stepped [side welded] where the key ways where not in the correct position ...all good fun back then, who doe's that today? You must be mid 60's ? I still have my old scrapers with sandvik blades , they where posh..otherwise it was oil files ground down.

Andy_B said:

Sorry but they don't ring a bell. We did a lot of work on Clearings presses and the big earner was on smaller Minster double action presses used in the canning industry. We used to bore out the Clearings press crowns quite regularly plus we often bored the small end on the con rods to accept bushes but the critical part was making sure one bore wasn't lower/higher than the other side so the top part came down out of line.

We often had to machine the crankshaft on both the flywheel and the clutch sides minimum to clean up then recut the keyways either in the original positions or at 90 degrees to the originals if they were too badly worn on the sides. With the Minster presses we came up with a method of reclaiming the beds where the bottom die set had ribs on them and they fretted the bed so the die bounced a bit and when that happened we milled a series of slots across the bed, fitted high carbon keys in the slots and then blued them in with scrapers and engineers blue until they were parallel with the tool sets to with 0.0004".

I don't miss doing the work on the Minsters because when the keys wore we'd be expected to go to wherever in the World the plant was and bed in a new set of keys in next to no time at all and the clients engineers would expect miracles because the material used for the cans is so thin the tolerances ore tiny.

In Situ machining is great fun and when you get a really tricky one then sort it out you walk away thinking you've done a good job. I've progressed over the years and I'm now a project manager running major power station outages but I still try to get as much time as possible on the tools with the guys and they take the piss out of me mercilessly when I pull my overalls on and stand there swearing at them because they've needed me to help out

Click to expand...

Well put

In relation my my msg earlier, The Pics are here -

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AN stopped allowing viewers from Oman. I had to get a VPN to allow Skype today for some job interviews because Oman doesn't allow Skype. I thought the internet was supposed to be open.

Singh,

Show some pictures of your shop and equipment (with you in the pictures). I still am having trouble believing you. Sorry I've been duped too many times.

You have a lot of explanations and excuses, but a reliable vendor would have refunded the customer's money when he knew he couldn't complete the orders in a timely fashion. You say you "should have", but you didn't.

Then not replying to emails and other contacts is very suspect. Yes you are recovering from an illness, but then you should have plenty of free time on your hands to answer your customer's in a timely fashion and not leave them hanging and wondering what's going on.

When that happens to me, I get very upset because it feels like my order doesn't matter or that I have been cheated...this is the biggest problem you have in my opinion. People will be patient and work with you but you "MUST" let them know what's going on.

So far there aren't too many people on this forum who are vouching for you.

Sorry to be so pointed, but this whole thread is full of people you were working for who are very unhappy.

SINGH said:

Hey All,



I am also doing a Custom rickman inspired tank with a built in oil tank for a client who is getting his one of kind commando done up at Colorado Norton works. Once I am done with the tank, I will request Matt at CNW to provide an honest review here at AN for all to see if possible.


Singh

Click to expand...

Just to be clear. The work was commissioned by my customer directly and not by me. In other words, I have not seen any work done by Singh previously and can not can I vouch for quality/fit etc. until I have the parts in front of me

The bike is not a cNw build but rather a partial where a customer that bought a lot of parts from me, couldn't find the time to work on the machine and asked me to finish it. Not something i usually take on but he has been a great customer for years so I decided to make an exception

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

I have white listed both Dave's and Singh last login IP addresses so they/you can post here. One IP is in Germany and the other one is in France so they should be clear and access norton should be visible. (Perhaps that is via proxy from where they/you are). If you guys are posting from India via proxy, send me your IP's in India and I will white list those for you too.

If you find your country is blocked and somehow you get to see this, simply contact me somehow with your IP address to be white listed here (I am easy to reach access norton/ g-m-a-iLLLL). I am afraid I have no patience with the hack attempts coming from these countries, not only victimizing users here in the US, but the access norton server and me personally. I know that is not the case with you guys and that is why I white listed you, so you can reply to the posts.

I can guarantee you that the internet is not free and has never been further from free.

I would like to see a positive outcome from all this. It sounds like it could be turned around. I hope.

Good luck

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry. I'm on a VPN that uses proxies for a lot of countries, so I can use Skype. I know about having to deal with a ton of spammers. Weird that you'd get attacks from Oman. It's a pretty laid back country.

I will unblock Oman later...