Fullauto Technologies Head

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Water dunking was done by racers in a hurry as the shock cooling contraction re-work hardens some of what ya gained as does the mere temp changes in a shop over time. Get copper too soft into luminous orange range and head clamp force can mash it into bores but gets burnished out the way by piston. Eventually most future owners will trim push rods to use JSM effective thong 'gasket's.
 
Dkt, I recently purchased a FullAuto head...I have no complaints at all about quality.....

I am curious as to why th einlet ports and not cleaned a bit to remove the sand casting marks, but I don't feel this is a quality issue...and I don't think it is needed as long as the shaping is correct around the valves.....the chambers and everything else is how it should be and don't have any issues with external finish.....I dohave two original heads I wish had been as well made.....
 
SteveA said:
Dkt, I recently purchased a FullAuto head...I have no complaints at all about quality.....

I am curious as to why th einlet ports and not cleaned a bit to remove the sand casting marks, but I don't feel this is a quality issue...and I don't think it is needed as long as the shaping is correct around the valves.....the chambers and everything else is how it should be and don't have any issues with external finish.....I dohave two original heads I wish had been as well made.....
Click to expand...
Me either. I think it's a piece of art. I think martyn thought the finish quality was not so good on his. Maybe one off as I am happy with mine
 
Any opinions on copper gasket dressings from the likes of Permatex.
Click to expand...

they seal well . Tend to tear up gaskets on service / overhaul , as its somewhat adheshive .

The Copper Cote / Kopper Kote - Copper Graphite paste / grease , is Anti Sieze - Pressure Sealing Compound .
So Scotsman & others can remove , rinse in Petrol and refit unblown gaskets . This can save a penny if youre
forevever meddling in the innards .
If youre off the beaten track it saves going to Town or laying in spares .

Fullauto Technologies Head


1516-S Copper Coat Gasket Compound Recommended for use in general assembly work on high compression engines, diesel heads, cover plates, hi-speed turbine .
Click to expand...

What they used to keep the copper gaskets in L.S.R. Triumphs & Triple Turbos pre the flame ring suckers . Ive used the Grease tupe on automotive cyl heads & exhausts & elsewhere . After puloining a gallon tin . A handfull in Diffs - and as assembly lube . A bizzare mix of capabilities - anti sieze & sealant . :D
 
Excellent info gentlemen. Thank you.
I am going to try the 21thou offering of jam with the copper wire both sides of the gasket first but will get a spare if that fails and try the copper goo.
Another related question..will I need to trim the pushrods? My guess is no but what do y'all think
Cheers
DKT
 
You will almost certainly need to alter the length of the pushrods. What you are aiming for, is the face of the rocker into which the ball end is pressed, to be square to the pushrod at half lift. It's not an exact science, but with a torch & a bit of patience you will get there. Hope this makes sense.
Martyn.
 
To get what Matchless said ya ink tops of valve stems and diddle p-rods till adjuster contact length essentially centers on stem or better its hardened cap. I've got a couple spare sets of p-rods to eventually ruin some too short trying to act like real Norton mechanics. We had long valve geometry thread couple years ago on where best to have adjuster contact hit, near center when valve hardest to get moving off its seat or centered at full lift to come to conclusion reducing guide sideloads mattered most in our heads so aim for traditional center of target.
 
Comp gasket is aprox 40thou and the copper 21thou. That's a reduction of 19thou or in laymans terms five eighths of F all.
Will I really need to trim back pushrods length for a street bike?
 
Mix and match stack up to see what ya end up with then more or less an opinion call on how close to ideal vs just perfectly adequate ya care to diddle geometry, keeping in mind All Combats did ok with .040" too long p-rods as my current Trixie and prior Peel so so how bad can it be in your case. Just don't let on here ya short cutted anything so your reputation will be retained.
 
hobot on mine it "did ok" but it pounded the hell out of the valve ends in not too many thousand miles. (This was after the drive side bearing went.) There was a time when I even had the ends of the valves stellited. I think the problem had to do with compressing the spring to near coil bound when the head was shaved 40 thou for combat. (Only on some engines.) I had the lower spring cups shaved per an old "Norton News" article about what I think was a factory service bulletin. After that the wear was much less. Mine is a fairly early combat 202093.

It is easy enough to check to see if you are near coil bound using a hammer handle pushing the valve open more. You could even instrument it with a cheap Harbor Freight dial gauge and magnetic stand. I use mine all the time and it compares well with more expensive micrometers that have made it home. And you can measure valve lift for fun.
 
Rocker geometry is key. You cannot assume anything here. Although the Maney units are somewhat assured to be machined consistantly, OEM stuff was questionable.

I hope you would have the luxury of having the motor on the bench and fitting the head to determine exactly how much or how little to trim the P-rods will be a sinch. If the motor is in the frame it will of course be more of a pain.

Another aspect is what effect your lifters and cam will be. If you bench work all this stuff you will surely add integrity and longevity to these great part you are using. Don't skip it, even if just a street bike.

I would try to be exacting in this area.
 
Dkt26 said:
SteveA said:
Dkt, I recently purchased a FullAuto head...I have no complaints at all about quality.....

I am curious as to why th einlet ports and not cleaned a bit to remove the sand casting marks, but I don't feel this is a quality issue...and I don't think it is needed as long as the shaping is correct around the valves.....the chambers and everything else is how it should be and don't have any issues with external finish.....I dohave two original heads I wish had been as well made.....
Click to expand...
Me either. I think it's a piece of art. I think martyn thought the finish quality was not so good on his. Maybe one off as I am happy with mine
Click to expand...


It all comes down to cost. I can have the ports CNC machined but it will cost thousands to set up and then a price penalty on new heads. When I put my first production head on my own bike (No2), I purposely left the head as is for comparison with a standard head and, believe me, with all else the same, you WILL notice the difference. Having said that, I will be sending the head to Jim for some work, just a mild clean up and see where that takes me.

Thanks for the compliments gentlemen.
 
Dkt26 said:
Comp gasket is aprox 40thou and the copper 21thou. That's a reduction of 19thou or in laymans terms five eighths of F all.
Will I really need to trim back pushrods length for a street bike?
Click to expand...

.020" change one way on the other could actually improve rocker geometry - you won't know until you check.

Just adding lash caps will change things. It depends how perfect you want to be. A stock motor from the factory may not have correct rocker geometry and run fine and you may not notice a difference unless things are way off. This is about whether or not you want to blue print your motor. Blue printed motors generally run better. But how perfect do you want to get when regrinding your valve seats changes everything?
 
If I were to go to the 3thou flame ring would I need mods to avoid valve/piston clash?
 
Easy said than done, uni-form "redness" can only be done in a kilm. plonking it onto the gas "Kettle ring" only heats areas...oven not hot enough. So the gasket gets plunged with differant hardness over the surface... hence it blows!!!
Tell me how to do it properly...i'm all ears!

Torontonian said:
Anneal to red hot , then quench in a bucket of cool water. :twisted:
Click to expand...
 
In the case of annealing copper it don't matter a whitworth if only small areas are heated to glowing at a time as long as all the copper gets to hi enough temp at some point. I'm done with using the faulty thick head gaskets copper of composite so may be able to demo wax like softness of orange temp copper on Trixie's that been used 4x;s not - that must be handled like a half done pancake kept horizontal and supported or end up like Dali's clocks.
 
http://www.materialseducation.org/educa ... Copper.pdf


Annealing the copper requires a high temperature. Copper melts at 1357Kelvin
and annealing generally occurs at greater than half the melting point in degrees K; even
higher temperature causes faster annealing (but not past the melting temperature, of
course). Typical temperature to use is 400C or 700F. Annealing causes the structure to
create and grow new grains that are free of strain. The new grains remove all
dislocations and other defects caused by the deformation, thus leaving the material in its
original soft condition, although NOT in its original shape—it will still be the same shape
as after deformation, but can be easily bent again. Annealing takes time and temperature,
so that this part of the experiment can only be done with a high enough temperature
annealing furnace or in a propane torch. If not readily available, the copper can be taken
elsewhere and annealed, then presented to the class at a later date in its annealed
condition.


A few notes:
• Cooling rate after annealing does not matter (except at 10 million degrees per
second the material would get harder again)
Click to expand...
 
Fullauto said:
Dkt26 said:
SteveA said:
Dkt, I recently purchased a FullAuto head...I have no complaints at all about quality.....

I am curious as to why th einlet ports and not cleaned a bit to remove the sand casting marks, but I don't feel this is a quality issue...and I don't think it is needed as long as the shaping is correct around the valves.....the chambers and everything else is how it should be and don't have any issues with external finish.....I dohave two original heads I wish had been as well made.....
Click to expand...
Me either. I think it's a piece of art. I think martyn thought the finish quality was not so good on his. Maybe one off as I am happy with mine
Click to expand...


It all comes down to cost. I can have the ports CNC machined but it will cost thousands to set up and then a price penalty on new heads. When I put my first production head on my own bike (No2), I purposely left the head as is for comparison with a standard head and, believe me, with all else the same, you WILL notice the difference. Having said that, I will be sending the head to Jim for some work, just a mild clean up and see where that takes me.

Thanks for the compliments gentlemen.
Click to expand...

Ken
It is precisely 1/4 mile from street bottom to Mary's driveway. Using a standard RH4 head, I have been clocked at 6 seconds. Admittedly, Mary can be a little slow in pressing the stop watch button but who's arguing? With a straight Fullauto head, I'm figuring I can achieve 5 seconds. After Jim has worked it, close on 4 secs should be possible, unless you hit a dog halfway up the street.

Phil
 

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auldblue said:
Run that one past me again Phil?
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm allowed to put the same post in twice aulblue, I'll abbreviate:

Drag racing up your street, greased up and wearing your undies only,
Fullauto head worked by JC in Colorado gives best times.
Mary next door is 85. Times could be challenged.
Hitting canine matter on public drag strip reflects poorly on KC and JC regarding times.

I hope I'm not starting to write like hobot, as well as think like him!
Could be just a hobot moment.

Phil
 
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