'72 Interstate Restoration

mattthomas4444 said:

Thanks, I guess I'll make a trip to grap some 1" pipe pretty soon, the only reason I don't want to use the punch is beacaase the old Britts article says not to, but if you guys have done it with no problems I'll give it a try. And as far as the breather goes, Ive heard good things about it but the price is quite a hit to a fifteen year old budget. What problems does to CNW breather fix from to stock one?

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Re 1" pipe...take a tape measure with you and check outside diamters. A 1" coupling sounds about right at 1.5 O.D. but if you buy a pipe nipple, you should be looking at 1.25 pipe.

RE breather valves...what problems does it fix?!!! It fixes everything! Why there's nothin' a breather won't do, why you might not believe this little fellah, but it'll cure your asthma too!

Here is some reading to keep you busy...

inline-breather-valves-revisited-t7637.html?hilit=breather

breather-valve-problem-t7562.html?hilit=breather

xs650-breather-exposed-t7345.html?hilit=breather

one-way-breather-valve-differences-t5929.html?hilit=breather

xs650-mount-near-tank-breather-t5866.html?hilit=breather

And the mother of all breather threads...

crank-case-breather-t3680.html?hilit=breather

Enjoy,
Russ

T95 said:

pvisseriii said:

First responce might be a screw driver and hammer. But, for $30 buck or less you can get an angle grinder and a cut off wheel. Mark it up on a proper sized piece of pipe and cut it out in minutes.
I made this out of a 1" black pipe coupling.

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Vary Nice ! I love hand made alternatives to the factor tools. I am going to make one for myself. Can you tell me how wide and deep the pins need to be. Also how are you spinning your tool, pipe wrench?
gary

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Pins are .250 deep. The casting leaves laterals on the side so a channel lock is all you need to secure, although a pipe wrench would be fine. As someone said, there is not alot of torque on these. If you have a lathe you can shoulder it over the clutch release body as a bonus.

Russ, thanks for all the threads, and after a lot of reading about breathers, Ive noticed a few things, some guys put the breather on the cases and some put them right near the oil tank, is there a difference either way? also I think the CNW one has attracted me the most, I am willing to put the extra money in to keep the cases leak free, everything looks nicer that way! And just to make sure, if i were to get the breather from CNW, the cases would have to be milled to fit it because the bike is a '72 combat? or wouldnt they?

Your breather should be coming off the back of the case now as near as I know. So really the only thing you might want to do is to alter the oil pick up while you have the cases apart. Old Britts has a tech article on it.

http://www.oldbritts.com/n_c_case.html

I put the XS650 valve on mine but will eventually be buying the CNW valve. Or lets say it is on the wish list, but then there is lots of stuff on there and another bike project underway, so time will tell.

Russ

Yes the breather comes off the back of the cases, the only thing i dont get, is there are 4 bolt holes on the CNW breather but only two on my cases...from what it looks like at least, i havent taken it off yet. Also I tore into the transmission today, and got everything out using the old britts instructions, until i had to remove the layshaft, i cant seem to get it out with heat like they suggest. Any other methods?

mattthomas4444 said:

Yes the breather comes off the back of the cases, the only thing i dont get, is there are 4 bolt holes on the CNW breather but only two on my cases...from what it looks like at least, i havent taken it off yet. Also I tore into the transmission today, and got everything out using the old britts instructions, until i had to remove the layshaft, i cant seem to get it out with heat like they suggest. Any other methods?

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A stubborn layshaft has its benefits. It means the layshaft bearing journal is good and has not been spinning in the bearing along with the bearing in the casing.

Get a can of map gas. Trust me, you will use it again and again (swing arm hint hint),4 times hotter than propane and able to concentrate heat where needed. Trust me, it will come out. Here's the easy part, let it freeze. Then hit it right at the seat of the bearing from the back side. work it, baby, work it!

Just to make sure, I heat the back side of the bearing, then freeze it right after, then hit when its cold

mattthomas4444 said:

Just to make sure, I heat the back side of the bearing, then freeze it right after, then hit when its cold

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No, set it out side in a snow bank and let the whole thing freeze. I believe it is -9f there right now. Shouldn't take but a shot and a beer to get it. When it's witches tits cold, casing, shaft, bearing, the whole kit and caboodle, then we will proceed to part 2. Being frozen has molecularly shrunk everything. At this point is where you apply heat directly to the external surface at and directly where the bearing opposite is. When i say hit it, I mean hit it with the heat(metafore). This zapping of heat (MAPP Gas) will expand the area holding the bearing releasing it before the heat can spread to the other parts.

Haha, sorry i misunderstood for some reason, its all good though I managed to get the shaft out no problem.

Wow, after a day of soaking in a ATF/Acetone solution (which works great for cleaning) the swing arm spindle finally came out. Its no wonder it took so much work, the spindle is pitted from rust and the solution had turned orange after it ran through the spindle. And now that the gearbox has been fully dismantled the only major things left to start on are the wheels and engine....

Ive been looking into some upgrades for the bike, i think the breather, head steady, and a few other are going to happen, but ive been stuck on the swing arm upgrades. Theres a few different ones, one with clamps that clamp down on the frame (like this one http://www.doov.com/apps/nortoncompanio ... s&Itemid=8 ), and also just a rebuild kit with all new parts. But ive thought that an upgrade to bearings might be possible, does anyone know of this being done, and if so is it more beneficial than the clamp upgrade?

First let me say that I don't have years of Norton wrenching behind me...I have just been reading this forum longer than you have. So there are plenty here who are more qualified. I only offer this so that you don't get the impression I have done it all. I am in the process just like you.
On the swingarm the issue is not so much the rotational movement (swing) of the swingarm it is the side to side movement of the rear wheel which eventually stretches the tube in the crade in which the spindle mounts. That is what the clamps are for. Somewhere in this forum are pics of a very nice job Ludwig did on his swing arm by taping into the spindle and bolting it to the cradle tube without the clamps.
There are needle bearing kits out there. I think CNW might offer one. But I have seen photos here where the spindle actually wore faster at the bearing interface than with bushings. I don't know why or how, or if this is a sigular event. It is my feeling that the ammount of movement there is so small that the bearings never rotate a complete 360 degress but instead just rock back and forth. So I wonder if they are doing much good. The bushing at least offers a larger surface area to resist point loading.
The clamps on the other hand, make a lot of sense and the advice is overwhelmingly not IF but WHEN you need them. So installing them on a cradle that has not been worn is recommended.

Russ

The spindle on my '69 was rusty and the hole in the cradle was worn oblong when I started the rebuild. I sent the cradle, swing arm with bushings to Nithburg in CA and they gave me an oversized SS spindle, reamed the cradle to fit, reamed the bushings on the swing arm. The new spindle has 2 extra threads in it and they also put 2 holes and a couple of allen bolts in it. The new bolts face towards the rear and a bit downwards. I think it cost me $175 with shipping. This was all pre-Kregler, or at least before I knew about it. I don't have the machine shop like Ludwig, so I had to have someone do it and I didn't trust anyone around here to do it right. I'm happy with the job they did, don't know if they still do it, it was quite a while ago, like 03, but I think they are still in business.





Dave
69S

Thanks for the help, on second thought, I think the bearing idea will be scrapped, I'll look into Ludwig's mod, and compare it to the clamp one. I will likely settle on one of the two.

Also, with the gearbox apart I've been looking into how to clean the cases. I think a hot bath of somekind will be used because my dad knows a guy who owns a transmission shop, and he has a bath that we can bring the cases to. After that though I don't know if I should be painting the cases like the Old Britts article suggests. Any opinions on painting cases?

I cleaned up my GB inner cases and the inner primary case with a small stainless steel brush and WD40 and scotchbrite. The crank cases I had media blasted which left it looking like plastic. I polished it up with a small SS brush and that gave them a bit of shine, but not polished. Some people paint them, I suppose you could even powder coat them. Personal choice. I think they were only painted on the newer models. Some say that walnut blasting is the way to go, I have never seen it personally and lots of shops don't want to deal with walnut media. The outer cases can be polished.

Dave
69S

Thanks Dave, I guess that I won't bother painting the cases, unless they come out of the bath looking weird, and even then I will try the stainless brush like you used first

Well, all new gearbox parts are on the way. I guess it's time to start cleaning some other components from the bike, hopefully I can get everything cleaned except the wheels and engine by the time everything arrives. Then off to the powder coaters.

I have just about had my fill of wire brushing all the nuts and bolts, so I introduced the idea about an ultrasonic cleaner to my dad. Although a big hit to the budget I thought it was still worth a try, sure enough he said he has a ultrasonic cleaner at his office, so we wouldnt need to buy one. as far as the ultrasonic cleaner goes, does anyone have experience with these? What is the best type of cleaning solution to use in them, as far as degreasing and cleaning dirt goes?

Thanks,
Matt

I figured I'd just put an update out there on the progress. I finished rebuilding the gearbox this weekend and moved on to the engine. Everything looks pretty good inside. I took the head apart today and everythings looks pretty good maybe a few new parts needed there. The crankcases also look good, here's some pictures of them.

I have plenty of questions today,
I have the bike down to the frame now, with the engine apart and everything to nuts and bolts. The forks have also been taken apart, the springs look good with nothing jumping out at me, Im still wondering if they should be replaced though, and the dampers also look okay, theres a bit of corrosion that can be cleaned and brushed out im sure, but ive heard good things about the Lansdowne kit, and am quite interested. Is it money well spent for an interstate that wont be going racing or doing anything too strenuous.

The crankcase breather is also another question on my mind, the CNW is catching my eye, Im wondering if I should send the cases to be milled or just buy the breather because my cases are '72.

And finally, the CNW headstady (Comstock) looks nice, but ive seen guys make their own, anyone have some pictures or comments about their homemeade ones?

I think you should get new springs. If you don't know whether they've been changed before they could be close to 40 years old.