TTI gearbox clutch push rod

Status
Not open for further replies.
Onder

Onder

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
4,252
Country flag
Im mounting a TTI 5 speed street going (ie with a kicker) gearbox. Was rather surprised to find the clutch push rod disappeared fully into the shaft! Had to fish it out with a tiny magnet. It is a stock pushrod, works fine in my stock box etc. Measuring up with a test rod I find I need a length of 11 1/8" to achieve the same protrusion as a stock gearbox.
Questions:
1. Am I missing something?
2. If not, good source for a hardened 6mm rod?

Suppose not too far a reach to use a ball bearing and a short piece of drill rod. Seems a bit iffy though.

Thanks!
 
Hi Onder

Did not change mine? I don't think so anyway. You have me questioning myself. I was always told silver steel was the best bet & easily available.
Has the plate dropped on the clutch operating side? This could be your problem?

Chris
 
Im measuring with no clutch installed. Simply by amount proud of the hole in the shaft with the rod fully pushed all the way in. Protrusion with my stock box and rod is 5/16". Stock rod is 9 13/16", maybe a hair shorter. Wondered if I was missing something from the gearbox side. Have not removed the side cover
from box, it is as shipped. The test rod is moved the same amount (or very close) as the stock rod so figured box was ok.
McMaster offers harded rod for shafts, about same price as a AN pushrod worth a try.
Im just puzzled why Im short. Thought maybe other TTI owners could set me straight.
 
Onder said:
Im measuring with no clutch installed. Simply by amount proud of the hole in the shaft with the rod fully pushed all the way in. Protrusion with my stock box and rod is 5/16". Stock rod is 9 13/16", maybe a hair shorter. Wondered if I was missing something from the gearbox side. Have not removed the side cover
from box, it is as shipped. The test rod is moved the same amount (or very close) as the stock rod so figured box was ok.
McMaster offers harded rod for shafts, about same price as a AN pushrod worth a try.
Im just puzzled why Im short. Thought maybe other TTI owners could set me straight.
Click to expand...

Find a supplier the will sell you a foot of the desired diameter "DrillRod".
Hardening the end is straight forward.
Heat the end to cherry about an inch in.
Quench it in oil for a couple seconds.
Be quick to rub it with some emery cloth.
Watch it come back to a nice amber, the quench it again to cool.
 
I may face this on Peel's ITT so stick the heated rod end in sugar after the right heat before the oil plunge. I bought 18" long drills at good hard ware to modify Peel's swing arm air tank so may have to cut one of them.
 
Not to add a red herring but Im also installing a Newby belt drive/clutch. So not much is standard. Im trusting that the TTI box wont be a weeper like the stock box but we shall see. The last thing I want is oil on my dry clutch and belt.
The clutch basket needs to be inboard a bit from where it sits now the back touches the sheet metal oil shield. I can easily shim it out but then the belt
will have some small portion not engaging with the basket teeth and will be wear problem Im sure. Hate to trim off the shield but not a big deal. Taper
fit of the front pulley leaves no way to shim it out.
The farther you go from stock the more variables you add the more hassles crop up.
Thanks for the advise, Im still wondering if any one else found the push rod too short.
 
Hm Ondor my ITT is in living room in cradle and my Trixie Combat rod in out so will check what I can. Necking the factory rod and/or placeing a ball between cut rod section was ancient way to try to stifle oil drain into clutch.
 
I'd only bother about hardening the ends of the clutch rod, if my bike was intended for road use. Even if you race every month the change in length due to wear on an un-hardened rod should be virtually nothing if the ends are lubricated. I know I'm pretty rough, I usually just find a bit of bright quarter round and shorten it and clean up the ends, until I achieve a reasonable amount of adjustment with the lever angles correct. I use the common Norton witch's hat shaped bit to actually operate the pressure plate. Getting the bit of rod into and out of the mainshaft tunnel while you are shortening it can be a bit of a pest, I usually end up with the bike on its side on the floor of the shed.
 
To withdraw the rod up in the shaft, I put a .15 rare earth magnet cube in the end of some shrink tube, shrunk it in
and out it comes the push rod. The mag was a sample from kjmagnetics.com which hung in the original little plastic bag on my
fridge for over ten years coming to the rescue this morning! They deserve the plug!

The ends of the original push rods are hardened. I know that the 'ball trick' was to shed gearbox oil but it was also
was used to make the clutch rod spin easier.

I was hoping that some of the TTI users would tell me what I was missing or tell me to man up and cut a new pushrod.
 
Onder, no you are not missing anything, except perhaps a bit of clutch rod length!!!
When installing the TTI 5 speed into the race bike , I had the same issue, original rod disappeared up the main shaft, I thought I had done something wrong.
Instead of retrieving the rod, I installed the whole clutch assembly without the adjustment nut on the the pressure plate, measured the amount of rod i required to make up the extra length, then I had a set of cheap screwdrivers that had all the same shaft sizes as the clutch rod.
Sacrificed two of these to suit the extra length needed, I made them slightly different lengths and as it turns out only use one.
All works fine, and the short rod comes out easy when ever you take the adjuster nut out or service the clutch.
Hope this helps
Regards Mike
 
Yep, it is true, the TTi box uses a longer rod, it is wider to accomodate the wider gears and the cluthc mechanism is completely different.....

......advice from Bruce Verdon when I tried to order a TTi rod was to get a length of 6mm silver steel, cut to length to suit your clutch and harden the ends.....meaning if he stocked them he might need to stock a few different lengths for different belt drives etc. so it is easier for you to make your own to suit.

Stick to 6mm and avoid any potential galling inside the mainshaft.....someone on here reported problems with 1/4" rod some time back, might have been Holmslice.

I took a piece of silver steel to Norman White when I had him make my belt drive.....I had mentioned it when I dropped the bike off, but we talked about a few things, and he didn't notice the rod in the box of bits I gave him.....so when he came to do the job a couple of weeks later he discovered what you did...

So he just used a standard Norton rod and cut a small section from an old rod and popped that in....it works and I have the option of making a one piece one if I want to sometime.......
 
Mystery solved!
Ill order a piece of hardened rod from Mcmaster, cost less than a stock AN rod.
Odd Bruce doesnt mention this upon sale.

Further question: does anyone run a 530 sprocket on them? Im wondering how Ill make out
with the 520 provided on a street bike.

Thanks much for the responses.
 
Onder said:
Mystery solved!
Ill order a piece of hardened rod from Mcmaster, cost less than a stock AN rod.
Odd Bruce doesnt mention this upon sale.

Further question: does anyone run a 530 sprocket on them? Im wondering how Ill make out
with the 520 provided on a street bike.

Thanks much for the responses.
Click to expand...

If the sprocket is of good quality you should be fine as long as it is matched with a good quality chain.
Is your rear hub stock or is it after market also. The cutting down of the Commando rear hub is more suseptable to wear, but again, a good quality chain will help in the regard.
 
Say what? Do ya mean ITT is meant for a 520 T size sprocket and questionable to fit 530 width? I was offered 2 sprockets but they sent tranny w/o any. What sprocket width would side car rigs run?
 
hobot said:
Say what? Do ya mean ITT is meant for a 520 T size sprocket and questionable to fit 530 width? I was offered 2 sprockets but they sent tranny w/o any. What sprocket width would side car rigs run?
Click to expand...

The sidecar racer I got my TTi box from gave me 3 520 sprockets.....
 
Thank goodness 530 will fit as I expect Peel to break off or fan over 520 size teeth on 5" wide drag slick like side cars - now and then. Once Peel proven up or failed I don't expect to live long doing her limits in public so likely may remove Drouin and ITT for the lighter wt of AMC and single big carb or two carbs into one manifold. I am glad I learned the easy way on the clutch rod and other ITT quirks from those way ahead of me right now. I'll definitely cryo temper sprockets cogs and chains on her. Maney outrigger bearing is too small ID to slip on ITT main shaft so guess it'll be for sale too.
 
hobot said:
Thank goodness 530 will fit as I expect Peel to break off or fan over 520 size teeth on 5" wide drag slick like side cars - now and then. Once Peel proven up or failed I don't expect to live long doing her limits in public so likely may remove Drouin and ITT for the lighter wt of AMC and single big carb or two carbs into one manifold. I am glad I learned the easy way on the clutch rod and other ITT quirks from those way ahead of me right now. I'll definitely cryo temper sprockets cogs and chains on her. Maney outrigger bearing is too small ID to slip on ITT main shaft so guess it'll be for sale too.
Click to expand...


Point is this Steve, assuming a flat sprocket, which is TTi standard, the mainshaft only has space for a 520 sprocket, try to run a thicker one and there is no thread left for the nut!

In any case the splines are not the same as Nortons

If you want anything other than a flat 520 from Bruce, you will need to get something made, if you get a 530 made you will need the centre section machined thinner.....

My guess is that you would be fine with an HD 520 chain
 
I don't think the side plates or pins are thicker on a 530 chain compared with a 520. If wear is a factor a 530 might be better because of the extra load area on the rollers. I've never used anything other than 520 on the rear when racing old garbage.
 
Ok SteveA this is more bad news for me as assumed ITT splines fit Norton issue, Ugh. They asked me what T count for 2 sprockets but never sent them, so more hassle to wait on. I'm not concerned with chain strength-stretch just teeth strength and endurance. I already know 520's 0.240" wide T are up to the power loads of even Peel with side car, just not for very long, like serious used race tires. Peel is already equipped-spaced aligned with alloy 520 rear sprocket so will just have to buy more often and in steel teeth around alloy center. With AMC box-sprocket Peel can clear 530 sealed chain past inner primary case and tire edge. Funny I'm so ambivalent on running a few oz less mass in this area but Peel is meant for long term real gritty life after her reputation made or failure in all the ways possible.
 
When I ordered I got a note asking for how many teeth. I had planned on the Newby belt so I figured
19 teeth would be correct for a road going bike. Bruce asked me to confirm 19 I didnt state the belt
set up and no doubt he thought that a bit low for a roadster. However he didnt mention the width
and I assumed 530. Well it arrived 520 so there you are and so am I.
I have a new drum (Ye Olde Brits) trimmed to 520. Andy Chain will probably tsk tsk me but I likely
will try some sort of sealed chain. Im old and small and my days of flogging the old horse are behind
me.
However I need to ask Bruce if he does 530 as Im really interested in Madass offering with the
cush drive that lasts and is not a nightmare to put on and take off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Schwany
A TTi gearbox related query
2 3 4 5
Replies
98
Views
2,407
acotrel
acotrel
ashman
Seems a lot on here have different ways of doing thing on their Norton's
2
Replies
25
Views
1,718
sammysnail
sammysnail
S
  • Locked
need info on TTI gearbox
2 3
Replies
42
Views
3,047
Mike40M
Mike40M
texasSlick
How to Make the Atlas/Dominator Primary Oil Tight
2
Replies
20
Views
7,510
norton bob
norton bob
Bigbossmonty
  • Locked
Split clutch push rod?
2 3
Replies
44
Views
5,663
Bigbossmonty
Bigbossmonty
Back
Top