TTI gearbox clutch push rod

I have used 530 size sealed and plain chain on 520 teeth just fine for 1000's miles on both Ms Peel and SuVee650 no problemo. So can still run around till getting everything all same size.

i wore off two drums sets of teeth, one 530 and another 520 and used up two 520 Atlas front sprocket teeth on Peel in under 7000 miles but got about 8000 [2 rear tires] out of SuVee's 520 alloy teeth before reverting back to 525 all steel teeth. I quite testing-learning how limited fatso moderns are when the going gets tough.

Onder said:

Suppose not too far a reach to use a ball bearing and a short piece of drill rod. Seems a bit iffy though.

Click to expand...

Older Ducati twins use two push rods along with four rollers and a ball bearing which works well.
Any one used one of these Commando Torrington bearing pushers ?

First it looks like the old mod I think SRM did or does for BSA TRI clutches.
Secondly when I see any sort of thrust needle bearing I shudder and think of
the less than a good idea Trident clutch thrust. What a PIA and really dumb
idea. Maybe it works well in this use.

Perhaps this thread could end and we could start a TTI box thread. They seem like
a really well made and designed piece but there is little or no paper on them and
already look at all the things not all of us know about them spilling out.

We can now start talking about fitting up a clutch to them too!

I was gonna let the lack of sent sprocket slip until I learned only ITT sprockets fit if and only in 520 teeth. Emailed Niel and ordered 17T for the stunting and steep off road and 21T to learn road manners then figure out if can use higher ratio to spend some more on. Also learned the cradle needs relieving, some ITT's are sent w/o wrong way shift quadrant than ordered, needs an extra rod spacer, wont' fit a Maney out rigger but the factory kicker splines are a match. Wonder what I'll run into with clutch basket.

Standard Norton type clutch centre will fit.....

Norman White's standard Norton style clutch centre fitted fine....and popped off fine when I stripped it back down....

When I spoke to Bob Newby he did say he uses a spacer washer behind the his Commando style clutch centre on a TTi box...he has different centre types for different applications....suggest if ou buy from Bob you make clear the geaarbox you are using.....

Of those of dedicated Norton persuasion Steve Maney has uses TTi boxes himself and I have seen his drums on TTi shafts, and I have seen Hemmings and RGM centres on TTi shafts....I don't think this is a problem, except that some centres, (as far as I know RGM and Norvil) have 'quality issues' relating to accurate machining....according to others who have had problems....so they could be suspect even on a standard Commando!

The issue with the gearchange drum is that Bruce thinks it is 'standard' for racers to use a standard lever reversed, or convert to left foot standard pattern...pretty sure he wont have ridden a Rickman where the footrest is so far away from the gear change splines a standard sized foot cannot reach....

Gosh SteveA thanks again for the hand holding or I'd be another decade before getting anywhere. i have Maney 40mm belt drive clutch so maybe just off the shelf fit I can handle. ITT confused me on which way to order shift quadrant and found After I made a two piece back facing shift lever its one down and 3 up, ugh.
I half fast paid attention to those that had to open ITT and install correct cam plate so will be back when I work up nerve and have ITT $end part. Who knows what kind of torque Peel will develop but clac's all imply over 100 lbft and I'm a clutch dropping throttle snapping jerky sort of guy so don't know if clutch slip or tire spin will limit acceleration. Mainly hope me and Peel will be light enough neither issue shows up much. I don't know if I'll still feel like spanking sports bikes by time Peel's operational so side car mounts made to test strain clutch holding and tire grip.

I read through this thread and a lot of good info is here on TT Boxes. Often the assumption with some of these high end suppliers is, if you're buying something so far off the menu, you will be able to figure out hot to adapt it to your needs. I have been in this same boat many times, and have had to scratch my head to work through some of these little speed bumps.

Specific to TT Industries - Having purchased and installed many of these beautiful beasts in our own and customers' street and race bikes, I'll aggregate some of this info here:

-- Clutch pushrod is definitely longer than stock for the TT box. Unfortunately I'm not in my shop now to look at my notes, but it was mentioned here that 11.25" was the figure, and from memory, that sounds right.

-- I have also used a stock Andover Norton pushrod, cut, and with a .250" ball bearing between, making it a 3-piece setup. This worked particuarly well on a McIntyre Matchless bike NYC Norton did up that had lateral frame rails that prevented insertion or removal of the clutch pushrod without dropping the drive train(!)

-- We use 6mm drill rod, hardened. Yes, it was me that tried with quarter inch rod and was getting excessive galling on the ends due to the tighter clearance through the mainshaft, making the rod spin and heat up in operation. Once we went down to 6mm (as per stock), the problems disappeared. It is imperative to harden the ends of any rod used.

-- The TT Boxes use a much larger mainshaft than the AMC boxes, so AMC sprockets won't fit. As mentioned, TT uses their own proprietary sprockets. Several sizes are available.

-- TT Industries also has two different length mainshafts. The "Commando" length shaft is obviously longer than the manx/domi length. I've used both to get the clutch spaced where I need, depending on the bike the box is going into.

-- The Andover Norton clutch center will fit directly onto the TT Mainshaft as normal. The TT mainshaft has a shoulder that the center will butt up against. I have installed the clutch directly onto the shaft many times, but after time the shoulder with its splines will begin to wear into the clutch hub. This is why a hardened washer between the hub and the mainshaft shoulder is a good idea. However, often the primary spacing with the front motor pulley requires the clutch basket to be inboard as far as possible, so using a hardened washer thick enough to do any good might space it all out in the wrong direction. It's a bit of fiddling around to get your proper setup and alignment just right. Don't cut corners here. If your center starts to wear the clutch will have slop, which will just accelerate the wear, and probably loosen the nut too.

-- On several builds we space the gearbox out from the motor so to get the gearbox sprocket outboard allowing for a wider tire/chain clearance. When this happens, the primary alignment goes out of whack with the front pulley. To correct, we machine the inside the ID of the clutch center to slip over the TT Box mainshaft shoulder and butt down to offset the clutch back to its normal position in line with the front pulley. Again, this isn't "over the counter" stuff - a lot of measuring and consideration of alignment from all of the drive train needs to be taken into account when doing this.

-- And, as mentioned, it's important when ordering from Bruce that you tell him which way you want your gear selection. He has 2 different drums. Since we use our rearsets with linkage on almost everything, I specify GP shift, but also state "counter-clockwise for first" on the shift shaft. Therefore, when using linkage, it's a one up, 4 (or 5) down shift pattern.

-- And finally (I've edited this post 4x adding more info as I think of it), I can't speak about a 530 sprocket. There might be clearance issues with the chain on the inboard side (fouling against the box). I run 520 chains on some pretty torquey machines, and I'm not about to change. Bruce's 520 sprockets can handle anything anyone on this forum can throw at them.

Hope some of this helps.

Time Warp said:

Onder said:

Suppose not too far a reach to use a ball bearing and a short piece of drill rod. Seems a bit iffy though.

Click to expand...

Older Ducati twins use two push rods along with four rollers and a ball bearing which works well.
Any one used one of these Commando Torrington bearing pushers ?

Click to expand...

I've got something similar in the Mk3 bought from RGM quite a few years ago - no drag as long as the plates are clean. Talking about drag what's with the women's head scarf?

My TTI 5 speed finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. The gear change pattern I ordered was one up four down with the lever pointing backwards. Guess what ? Contacted Neil & four days later the correct selector drum arrived in the post. Fitting it gave me the opportunity to have a proper look inside. I never feel like things are really mine until I've had them in bits. The 'box is a thing of beauty & a joy to work on. Hope its as nice to use as to look at!
Martyn

Thanks to Holmes for the info over past days pretty much discovered much of it. :-(
My fault as I ordered box and clutch without coordinating with myself or the vendors. Im trying to install a TTI Commando box with a Bob Newby belt/clutch
and have found exactly the problem noted: you need to get the clutch wheel as far inboard as possible because, unlike a Triumph, you cannot shim out the
engine sprocket. Bob mentioned a different forward pulley, spaced out of course. Must say I was awful leary of running the clutch up against the shoulder
of the input shaft as the contact area is very very small. If you put on a stock spacer, sans circlip ( TTI shaft isnt cut for it) you really give up a lot of ground.
With street going bikes you are limited by the rotor, race bikes may not run one. So one more hill to climb. Also as the clutch marches outboard you loose
threads on the end of the shaft, again going without a washer you have a tiny contact area.
Another issue is the shaft is smaller than standard where it goes through the felt seal. It doesnt touch at all. Not a major issue with a dry belt but needs
attending to for chains. In fact, I had to remove the bell shaped shield in order for the clutch to get inboard enough. It might be possible to pack out
the felt and get a seal here. Or better yet move into the 21st century and get a proper oil seal here.
Since I have the old barge apart or at least visible Im going to join the 21st C myself and try to post some pix maybe of use to someone. Let me know if
you want any view in particular. No inside pix of box it is in the frame and the idea of pulling it out isnt appealing.

Well Im off a bit on size but Ill work on that. Pix was to show the stock spacer and the shoulder area.
I thought the cup side which usually covers the circlip would best be turned around or better yet
replaced with somewhat thinner one.

This pix is to show the space around the felt washer area. I suppose to be smart , a sleeve should be run
up to pass through to the face of the sleeve gear oil seal.

Note bell shield has been removed here. It shouldnt be if you are chaining it.

Bell in place, you can see gap and how maybe possible to re-felt and fill it up. Ill try it at the weekend and
let you know how it goes.




pix of backside of Bob Newby clutch/belt drive allowing you to see the contact area on the basket and on
the shoulder of the input shaft. Not much is it.
Holmes has put the fear of the lord into me.....




General view for hobot...520 sprocket installed, TTI nut secured with a little allen. Chain is 530 on
only for tightening purposes.

Dang it Onder do I really have to know and learn all this just to ride with the wind? Ugh. I really don't like to be the first or the last to finish tests either. I'm past point of no return on Peel so really appreciate others leading the way for me. How your power plant strains the hell out of it.

I m just a dumb bunny with no real chops here. But like you I either get it figured out or turn tail and stay stock.
Many times my butt has been saved by pix posted here. Now Im trying to post stuff that will help others before
they drop real dough incorrectly.
Im surprised the list hasnt really made an effort to create a photo library on each and every part in the bike. Multiple
angles etc.
Come to that why not have drawings made from parts and plugged into a CAD program so we can see what fits and
what doesnt ?
Thanks goes to Holmeslice as he is the man with the hard won experience.

Bruce's sketch for cradle mod.

I posted some comments and pics in a thread somewhere of how to change the selector barrel in my race bike 5 speed TTI box.
It is very easy and takes very little time.
I orderd a 1 up 4 down , but the g/box came with the reverse pattern, used it for a couple of tests and races, changed them over with a few helpful phone calls to Bruce oncc the correct barrel arrived l, and returned the the 1 down 4 up item.
Yes once a few run in tests and races , box is excellent and smooth and strong, Keep up the regular oil changes as per their recommendations.
I am using Kennys (Holmeslice) rear sets on mine.
I had to modify the cradle very little for it to fit in, havent ajusted the Maney belt drive or gearbox since initial start up tack days and races last year.
Regards mike

Alrighty Brooking I remember the basics gists of your procedure but of course figured I'd not have to be that level mechanic so forget who and any details. Easy and simple huh, just what I was told by many the first time I asked about doing some repairs. I do feel more sense of self worth by learning and doing such details on such exotic model but BFD I just want smooth G's essentially maintenance free. The ideal race track to me would be mostly all chicane so staying in one gear up and down the power band and not worrying about melting plain bushes till clutch wobble throws the smoking hot belt. I'd better bite bullet before its all messy in living room form Redline lube. With a good tranny I can play with tire hopping gear cooking down shifts more too.

Pretty much agree. Pay through the nose all at once or the steady drip of money and time.
In our youth cars and bikes were constant maintenance and fiddling. Not now.
The stock box is simply not up to the job so stop trying to make corn grow on pavement.

Gee Onder I must still be in the flower of my youth with my ongoing repairs and customization of everything with a motor and wheels. Can't grow corn on pavement so what are the holes in this clutch basket shown? Could I see the other side too? Hope to have a bullet proof Commando someday that tear up tires not itself.

http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/onder_z/slideshow/












Bob Newby Racing lightweight clutch/ belt drive system less belt.