Tritons

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Fast Eddie,
Thanks for the information about that brake. I had sort of assumed that would be the case. It definitely looks great, probably tough to set up and get it to work right and very expensive to buy, even if one could be found. That all said, of course I still want one. Ha. A glutton for punishment I suppose. I like the Robinson 4LS as well, and perhaps that's more appropriate. I'm going for more of an original build, so I prefer the period parts over the replica stuff. I'm sure a 4LS Manx brake in magnesium from Andy Molnar would be quite nice.
I suppose that until any of these options actually present themselves for sale, it's all just day dreaming.
Thanks again for the info. Nice to have your feedback since you have actual experience with the CMA.
Jeff
 

Fast Eddie

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wilkey113 said:
Fast Eddie,
Thanks for the information about that brake. I had sort of assumed that would be the case. It definitely looks great, probably tough to set up and get it to work right and very expensive to buy, even if one could be found. That all said, of course I still want one. Ha. A glutton for punishment I suppose. I like the Robinson 4LS as well, and perhaps that's more appropriate. I'm going for more of an original build, so I prefer the period parts over the replica stuff. I'm sure a 4LS Manx brake in magnesium from Andy Molnar would be quite nice.
I suppose that until any of these options actually present themselves for sale, it's all just day dreaming.
Thanks again for the info. Nice to have your feedback since you have actual experience with the CMA.
Jeff

I can also offer some first hand experience of the Robinson:

I raced with one. First time out it faded away after 4 laps of Cadwell.

So I set it up so that it dragged when cold, so it took a few more laps before the lever came back to the bars.

Then I fitted a brake adjuster that I could adjust a couple of clicks each laps whilst racing (stupid really). If I left it in 'post race' adjustment, it would be impossible to push when cold!

I then put genuine green linings in it. These faded less but it still did fade. Worse, they turned the brake into an 'on-off' switch. I couldn't feather the brake at all, it was 'all or nothing'. When coupled with adjusting the brake every lap, it meant the biting point was constantly changing. It was an utter nightmare!

Dave Degans reckons that they were made out of the wrong alloy, and expanded too much with the heat.

But a good 4ls can be awesome. I had one from Degans that was as good as a good disc. It had a very powerful self-servo effect and incredible feel. Setting drums up properly is an art / science that few understand (me included)!

You'll be able to buy a fantastic 4ls from Degans (if he still does them) et al... or even a proper new Manx brake from Andy Molnar, for the same / less than the CMA will cost you.

You'll spend more time working on the CMA than you do working on your engine...!
 
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Well, I should state that I'm not going to be racing this bike. It's a road bike, so braking isn't as critical as it would be on a racing machine. That being said, I still want something that works effectively.

I can imagine that your racing experience with fade issues and constant adjustments, would make it a real nightmare.

I've tried to contact Dave Degens, but his email always bounces back. I live in the US, so calling international is a real pain. Maybe something will turn up. I certainly appreciate the first hand information.
 
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I believe an Oldani is a good drum brake, however a friend has sent the money for one from the factory, and been fighting for it ever since. For myself, I think they should have been banned along with pudding basin helmets. That combination caused a lot of fatal accidents. There just too many ways they can go wrong. I still have an unresolved injury from one which decked me back in the early 70s.
 
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wilkey113 said:
Well, I should state that I'm not going to be racing this bike. It's a road bike, so braking isn't as critical as it would be on a racing machine. That being said, I still want something that works effectively.

I can imagine that your racing experience with fade issues and constant adjustments, would make it a real nightmare.

I've tried to contact Dave Degens, but his email always bounces back. I live in the US, so calling international is a real pain. Maybe something will turn up. I certainly appreciate the first hand information.

Dave made the last double sided 4 l/s front brake a few years ago, unless he has changed his mind and decided to make another batch.
His web site is ;
http://www.dresda.co.uk/

but so far he appears to not have updated his e- mail address since moving to his new premises .
 
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Bernhard,
Thanks for that message.
I've tried to email Dave several times, and have continued to get the email bounced back. Website looks to have not been updated in a while, and many parts of it don't function at all. I've been hoping to get in touch with him and ask if there are any of those brakes available.
If any of you guys in the UK, happen into his shop, maybe you could enquire on my behalf.
Thanks
Jeff
 
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Don't most folk have free calls from their provider?

No one mentioned Greg Summerton for a 4ls brake. More or less copy of a works Manx brake, with the 50 odd years evolution in materials and refinements. Looks nice to me, how does the price compare?

His JAP's look fruity too.
 
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If that brake system didn't work properly maybe he's not making them anymore or stopped selling them before someone sue him because of a failure, my life is more important than to have a good looking brake set up that don't work for what it surpose to do and that is to STOP :?:

Ashley
 
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A single disc brake is usually better than any drum brake and a double disc front end is much better. The drum brake might look the part, however they can be very dangerous. I use two Suzuki discs with Lockheed AP calipers and a Lockheed master cylinder with braided SS lines. They are super light in application and super effective, they will never crash the rider if they grab a handful, and don't change as they heat up. Also NO SELF-SERVO so they don't lock or drag and steer the bike off into the boonies.
 

grandpaul

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Triton Thrasher said:
Is there not some cheap internet way of phoning the Dresda shop from abroad?

I phoned him in the normal fashion and got through okay, a little over a year ago. He mentioned that he was moving or had moved, I forget which it was...
 

Fast Eddie

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wilkey113 said:
Bernhard,
Thanks for that message.
I've tried to email Dave several times, and have continued to get the email bounced back. Website looks to have not been updated in a while, and many parts of it don't function at all. I've been hoping to get in touch with him and ask if there are any of those brakes available.
If any of you guys in the UK, happen into his shop, maybe you could enquire on my behalf.
Thanks
Jeff
Jeff, Dave doesn't really do email!
Call him, he'll happily advise you whether or not he has anything to help you.
If not, try these: http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes-55-c.asp
You'll pay around £2000 for a good CMA (in the UK) I reckon, so some of the 4ls in the above link are a bargain. Seriously!
If they're to cheap for you, try Andy Molnar, top class tackle: http://www.manx.co.uk/pdf/MPL-Replica_H ... mblies.pdf
 
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Thanks Fast Eddie,
I've looked at Discovolante and Andy Molnar. I've looked at all the replica brakes actually, and most of them are top notch. My biggest hang up, is that I'm a bit of a stickler for original parts. I'd prefer to find the old original bits, and don't mind spending the money. I'm not racing the bike, and even though I'll be riding it regularly on the road, I think a drum brake will be plenty sufficient for my needs and the fact that I'm not out to be some road racer tough guy.
I know a disk works better, I know a double disc works better yet, and then putting a disc on the back is even better yet. But it's a late 1950's - early 1960's motorcycle, so I prefer the correct looking bits. Lots of this stuff starts to get too modern for me, and at some point, with too many upgrades, I might as well get myself a Mazda Miata, put the top down and wear a helmet. Joking of course...

My project is a long term build, and I've been at it regularly for 3 1/2 straight years. I've still got time before it's done, so I can wait and keep looking for the right bits. If, by the time it's ready, if the brakes are all that's holding it up, then I'll pop for one of Andy Molnar's 4LS Manx brakes. But I'm still holding out for something original.

Appreciate all the info, and if I can figure out a reasonable way to ring Dave Degens, then I'll certainly give him a call.
Jeff
 
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I think you are wise to seek originality - a disc brake might be safer, however a 2LS Norton drum brake should be adequate for road use and will not devalue your bike by looking wrong. If you intend to race the bike buy a disc brake, a drum brake can give you a very hard lesson.
 
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I once won a race when I had almost total brake fade. The bike was a Suzuki Cobra with drum brakes. I had to sit up on the tank a bit to get it to handle. On one corner I went around out of control and went under a guy on an old 500cc BSA - almost knocked him off it. I then out rode the leader who was on a RD350 Yam.
 
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Cheapest option for road bikes is to use a standard Norton hub with a John Tickle 2LS brake plate, just get the brake fitted professionally with oversize brake lining skimmed down to fit the drum.
I had this done on my Atlas and had no problems with brake fade as I had it fitted with green linings, I would suggest one green and one brown fitted.

I would also suggest the same with the rear, but brown linings only, to save money, use over the counter brake shoes, and space them out to fit the drum on the rear.
 
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I used a 7R brake with an ME36 lining on the front, and a MZ41 on the rear, so that during races I always had brakes. Those numbers refer to the old Ferodo asbestos linings. Do you know the new numbers and brands for the non-asbestos brown and the green linings ?
 
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I've got a standard Norton hub and a John Tickle brake plate that I'll be fitting to my Atlas this coming season. Need to clear up some extra cash to lace the wheel and then have the drum skimmed and brake linings cut to size as you've mentioned. I'm looking forward to it's originality and getting used to it's performance.
The drum brake I'm looking for is going on another long term project, but if I like the Tickle brake on the Atlas, I may seek out another and go that route on the long term project.
I like the the Tickle brake, both in it's appearance and originality, and I've always heard good things about it's performance. I've seen guys race them as well. And again, mine is a road bike, so should be quite nice for my needs.
 
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