The P11 thread

[BillT]

I am currently restoring a "68" P-11 Ranger and am in need of lower end Main bearings and am having some difficulty locating any. Does anyone know of a reliable source for them as the crank is 'stuck' and I'm sure they will need replacing.

Thanks
Randy

Stock bearings should be readily available. Originally done with a roller bearing on the drive side and a ball bearing on the timing side. I rebuilt mine with a superblend instead of a standard roller on the drive side and the ball bearing on the timing side.

Original part numbers were 17824 for the roller and 17822 for the ball.

Early Commando numbers are the same. No need to mention the double roller set-up of the Combat, but the 73-on used the superblends, part number 064188.

Main bearings for the Norton 750-850 were all 30mm x 72mm x 19mm

 

[Rohan]

Main bearings for the Norton 750-850 were all 30mm x 72mm x 19mm

As were the bearings for all dommie twins, 500cc and larger, from 1949.

The latest bearings from the biggest motors will fit the earliest 500cc twins.
And vice-versa, although that is something to watch out for
(some ebay sellers sell bearings for the early twins, and mention Commandos in the same sentence !)
Fitting low-capacity bearings to bigger motors is never going to be a good idea, as the Combat saga proved...

 

[gomez56]

My "68" P-11A has unskimmed hubs without a front brake switch but is # P11/124385 which would make a very early P-11A not a Ranger. Any reason for this discrepancy? I'm restoring it now and need to know how to badge the tank, which seat and weather or not to put pillion pegs on.

 

[Rohan]

If you google norton hybrids, there are a considerable number of web pages devoted to them, including on the NOC website.
And a lot of original Norton and Berliner advertising.

By comparing what you have with those pics, you should be able to determine how it would have looked.
Be aware if it had a long and active racing life, it may well have all sorts of changes and mods, which may obscure how it came new.

 

[grandpaul]

Most bikes don't need to have ever been NEAR a race track to have numerous changes done, especially over 45 years...

 

[BillT]

My "68" P-11A has unskimmed hubs without a front brake switch but is # P11/124385 which would make a very early P-11A not a Ranger. Any reason for this discrepancy? I'm restoring it now and need to know how to badge the tank, which seat and weather or not to put pillion pegs on.

If the bike has 'Ranger 750' decals on it, it could have been done by an early owner or at the dealer if the bike was still on the floor when the '69s came out.

P11As should all be considered '68 models. Three batches were made, totaling about 1300 bikes. Around 400 were badged '=M=' and the rest badged 'N'

Standard setup for a P11A would be:
1) dual seat, wide at the back with two studs mounted in the fiberglass pan that go through the flats of the cross brace on the rear fender loop.
2) low pipes
3) skimmed hubs with disk covers on the open side
4) alloy fenders, with the rear fender ending at the front of the same cross brace the seat is bolted to. The pan of the seat doubles as the fender up to the oil tank.
5) most were candy red, but blue was an option, and at least one green.

 

[Bernhard]

My "68" P-11A has unskimmed hubs without a front brake switch but is # P11/124385 which would make a very early P-11A not a Ranger. Any reason for this discrepancy? I'm restoring it now and need to know how to badge the tank, which seat and weather or not to put pillion pegs on.

Re; “Any reason for this discrepancy?”
If my memory serves me right, it was not a legal requirement in the UK to have a front brake light switch fitted, until 1968 hence any earlier British bikes didn’t have one.

 

[gomez56]

Since it is such an early Numbered bike I think I should put the 'N' badges on the tank and just have the P-11A seat with the white piping and no buddy pegs. I bought this bike in June of 1975 for something to ride while I rebuilt my '67' P-11. The original owner had turned it into a quasi chopper. I insisted on having the original forks, seat, handle bars, fenders and all cables with the sale. I bought it on a Saturday as a chopper and rode it to work on Monday in stock form. The bike hasn't been ridden or started in over twenty years but only shows 3965 on the odometer. Can't wait to ride it again!

 

[hrwat1]

Quick query - currently restoring a '67 model P11 in Australia and about to send the frame off to powdercoating.
I have discovered what seem to be a number of differences from standard but wanted to check whether any of the P11's had a removable loop on the rear of the frame extending up and over the rear wheel? (inner part of rear fender would attach to it - as would the seat) -- [note: not the loop that inserts into the rear of the frame and runs around the wheel]. I am thinking that it was a modification by the previous owner to attach their own seat but wanted to check.

All of the photos that I have seen show a similar loop that is A PART of the frame (ie not held in by bolds but actually brazed in place and made out of round tube).

Cheers
Huw

 

[grandpaul]

The removable loop is original. Frame abutments are cone shaped.

 

[mdt-son]

My "68" P-11A has unskimmed hubs without a front brake switch but is # P11/124385 which would make a very early P-11A not a Ranger. Any reason for this discrepancy? I'm restoring it now and need to know how to badge the tank, which seat and weather or not to put pillion pegs on.

The P11A was made with skimmed hubs. The unskimmed hubs were specified on the Ranger model only. By then the P11 had lost its Desert Racer advantage and was marketed more as a luxury dual-purpose bike, evidenced by the seat piping, pillion footpegs and the costly tail light fairing. By the end of 1968 Norton-Villiers deemed it too costly to manufacture as a road bike and it was soon to be replaced by the Commando S and SS models.

The brake light switch was another luxury added on the Ranger, probably to meet US regulations.

-Knut

 

[mdt-son]

Quick query - currently restoring a '67 model P11 in Australia and about to send the frame off to powdercoating.
I have discovered what seem to be a number of differences from standard but wanted to check whether any of the P11's had a removable loop on the rear of the frame extending up and over the rear wheel? (inner part of rear fender would attach to it - as would the seat) -- [note: not the loop that inserts into the rear of the frame and runs around the wheel]. I am thinking that it was a modification by the previous owner to attach their own seat but wanted to check.
All of the photos that I have seen show a similar loop that is A PART of the frame (ie not held in by bolds but actually brazed in place and made out of round tube).

The fixed almost vertical loop was characteristic of the G85CS and the early P11, both having the short seat. Later P11 models do not have this loop as the factory switched to a dual seat. Instead they employed a flat bar loop located further to the rear and brazed to the bolted horizontal loop. Unfortunately this later "design" is fragile and the flat bar loop usually cracks near the bracing joint due to bending stresses and fatigue.
I hope this helps.

-Knut

 

[Rohan]

If any of those frame variances are a PO's attempt at modifying things, and you want to change it back, you'll regret having it powder coated. ?
The local frame guy hates powdercoat - says its only for garden furniture - terrible stuff to remove if the frame needs a repair at any later stage in its life.
Real bikes have painted frames ??

 

[BillT]

I painted my frames (P11 Ranger and G15CS) with PPG DCC9300 single-stage urethane. Super-tough, easy to touch up, and a good approximation of the original black.

You will scratch that frame up, especially fitting the bits for the foot pegs.

 

[CanukNortonNut]

The P11 learning curve for me.

Ok I am taking apart my P11 engine and got the head removed. I was surprised to find concaved Piston tops. This is to keep to the 7.5 to 1 compression ratio?
The pistons are still a little seized in the cylinders and I am giving it a good dose of WD40 to sit over night. Are these pistons normal for the breed?
Thanks in advance for any info.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

 

[Bernhard]

The P11 learning curve for me.

Ok I am taking apart my P11 engine and got the head removed. I was surprised to find concaved Piston tops. This is to keep to the 7.5 to 1 compression ratio?
The pistons are still a little seized in the cylinders and I am giving it a good dose of WD40 to sit over night. Are these pistons normal for the breed?
Thanks in advance for any info.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Re; "This is to keep to the 7.5 to 1 compression ratio?"
Yes.
Re; “The pistons are still a little seized in the cylinders and I am giving it a good dose of WD40 to sit overnight.”

You might like to try ordinary diesel fuel; it works out a lot cheaper :!: :shock:

 

[CanukNortonNut]

Well the WD-40 didn't make it budge. I just gave it the 50-50 ratio of Acetone and Dextron II. I will leave it over night and give it time to work.
Thanks,
Thomas
CNN

 

[BillT]

The original dished pistons are hard to find. Flat tops will give about a 9 to 1, and the bike doesn't seem to mind. I can kick mine with the other foot planted on the ground about half the time.

 

[CanukNortonNut]

The original dished pistons are hard to find. Flat tops will give about a 9 to 1, and the bike doesn't seem to mind. I can kick mine with the other foot planted on the ground about half the time.

BillT
Thanks, Good to know. I will check the bores once I get the pistons free. They don't look too badly carboned up but there is rust on the cylinder walls.
On another note. I have my Fuel tank, side cover and oil tank out to the painter. He knows the paint formula for the candy apple color.
It will be interesting once the bike finally gets back together. Can't wait.
Cheers
Thomas
CNN

 

[Devon]

Just a quick hello from a P11 owner in Devon, UK.
I understand from a knowledgeable chap here my M/C was imported to a Californian dealer in 1968 and came back to the UK in 1999. I am looking forward to saying goodbye to the winter and getting a few miles in on the Norton. A great bike.