New member with a new project with a question

kempoyner said:

But if there is a magic technique for getting spokes looking good....don,t keep it a secret!

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No magic, replace them, they're probably dangerous anyhow. You can get them in stainless. It's usually cheaper to buy new parts than re-chrome. But some parts on the S just aren't available, like the rear mudguard. Andover is making a new replacement for the front, but I'm not sure the bridge is right. If you want to see what it takes to remake the bike, search Phoenix and you'll find my long thread on restoring mine.

Dave
69S

kempoyner,

I believe the only differences between the Fastback, Roadster, Interstate, "S", "SS" and Hi Rider were styling changes. The frame, engine, transmission, rim size, suspension, lighting, were all the same. Maybe some models came with different tire tread pattern. Check out this link: http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/commando/

There were many highly modified Nortons ridden on oval dirt tracks, but certainly Norton did not make a purpose built dirt or "scrambler" bike, if that's what you are looking for. There may have been the odd Norton ridden in a scrambles event, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of one.

JimC said:

kempoyner,

I believe the only differences between the Fastback, Roadster, Interstate, "S", "SS" and Hi Rider were styling changes. The frame, engine, transmission, rim size, suspension, lighting, were all the same. Maybe some models came with different tire tread pattern. Check out this link: http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/commando/

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The FB (original Commando and later FB), Interstate, SS, and Hi Rider all had oil tanks in the side panel, the S, R and 70 Roadster had oil tanks behind the air filter, called the central oil tank, of which there were 2 models with the timed breather going into either the top hat (early) or behind the top hat (later) and the key in the right side FG panel. Pre 70 models also had a short prop stand and the centre stand mounted off a rib between the frame. After 70 the centre stand was mounted on the cradle. Fenders, seats and sheet metal were all styles associated with a particular model, although a lot of stuff overlapped. You can get a good idea looking at the sales brochures for different models. There were a lot of improvements/changes made after 70, but most stuff will fit year to year. In other words, you can make just about any model from any year you have, withing reason and given the issue of the central oil tank/fiber glass panels on the early models.

Dave
69S

There are major differences between 1970 and 1971 i.e. frame oil tank side covers stands handlebar levers evan the graphics on the speedo and rev counter are different,
The SS was a 1971 model has all these changes, the photo that has been posted is a 69-70 S or roadster, in no way is it an SS, good luck with it, the S is a pritty bike-

Hardly do the changes you mention affect function. Although, I will admit some of the changes you mention do not necessarily qualify as styling changes, in the strictest sense. There are many people on this site who are much more aware of the nuances of different model and year Nortons than I. What I was trying to convey to our new member, kempoyner, was that a Commado "S" and a Commando "SS", while styled differently, are essentially the same bike as a Roadster or an Interstate.

DogT said:

JimC said:

kempoyner,

I believe the only differences between the Fastback, Roadster, Interstate, "S", "SS" and Hi Rider were styling changes. The frame, engine, transmission, rim size, suspension, lighting, were all the same. Maybe some models came with different tire tread pattern. Check out this link: http://www.nortonownersclub.org/models/commando/

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The FB (original Commando and later FB), Interstate, SS, and Hi Rider all had oil tanks in the side panel, the S, R and 70 Roadster had oil tanks behind the air filter, called the central oil tank, of which there were 2 models with the timed breather going into either the top hat (early) or behind the top hat (later) and the key in the right side FG panel. Pre 70 models also had a short prop stand and the centre stand mounted off a rib between the frame. After 70 the centre stand was mounted on the cradle. Fenders, seats and sheet metal were all styles associated with a particular model, although a lot of stuff overlapped. You can get a good idea looking at the sales brochures for different models. There were a lot of improvements/changes made after 70, but most stuff will fit year to year. In other words, you can make just about any model from any year you have, withing reason and given the issue of the central oil tank/fiber glass panels on the early models.

Dave
69S

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I wish someone would give me a bike like that. The amount of work required to get it to mint condition is not very much - it is all there just needs a clean and a few seals. I wouldn't try to make a cafe racer out of it, it has too much intrinsic value for that. If you want to play, find a spare motor and gearbox, and buy a good aftermarket frame - Seeley, or Rickman, or even a featherbed, and build something which really turns you on. To many old bikes have ended up bitzas in historic racing when they should really have been restored.
I really feel strongly about this - appreciate what you have for what is is, it is a really beautiful bike. I've seen a few locally in Australia which have come out of USA. I cannot afford to buy one, but they make a really good 'Sunday bike' ! With that, all those young guys with modern superbikes will envy you. There is nothing flash about a commando, they are what they are, but I really love them. They are a REAL motorcycle.

The amount of work required to get it to mint condition is not very much - it is all there just needs a clean and a few seals.

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I totally disagree. This bike is forty-two years old and not ridden for probably a good number of years. Considering that it still has all the original hoses, control cables, old battery, old tires, old iso bushings, old wheel bearings and the original layshaft bearing, not to mention what appears to be rust and the bastardized exhaust system , I''d say it will take considerable more effort than cleaning and changing a few seals to bring it to mint condition.

It would appear to be a 'S ' , with the chrome headlight Halo / ring . The ' S S ' haveing the igh front guard .

Any info on the ownership paperwork ?. Might pay to ask the original type what spec it was new . A bloke
in N.Z. had a yellow 70 Roadster , low pipes and H/Lamp ring . :?

I note youve got Alluminum non std. foot rest mounting plates . better glare and see if theyre ' norvil ' , or
home made . Ask the reason for them too . AND DONT LOOSE THOSE MUFFLERS . pour em full of oil. NOW .

Id go for rearset fooitrests ( old BSA pegs , maybe ) reversed gearshift lever , Flat Bars ( Norton Straights they called them )
and the rest to taste . Standardish / periodish .As in not go all deranged on the Honda parts.Unless theyre free :lol: .

Was a B R G ' S ' around with a Honda 750 rear wheel , for the ' Cush drive ' , drive shock insulator .

Drain everything into clean white containers , forks , sump , oiltank , G' box . Overnight at least .
Then tip it out and inspect the residiue FOR METALIC PARTICULAETS ( scrap metal :shock: ).

Thisll tell you where you should go with it . Minimum would be flushing it all , then new fuids .

look at all the Norvil , Gus Kuhn & Dunstall stuff .Then keep it stockish , with that for inspiration.
Perspiration ( doing a bit of work ) is liable to be more productive though , as is getting to know
what you have so as to appreciate its attributes .The view is better upright , and comfort below high subsonic speeds .

kempoyner said:

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Is it possible that those pipes are Dunstall? Is the crossover made up if the flexible tubing he used? I think some builders used a stepped header, supposedly to keep the gas velocity up? Did Dunstall?

Do it right. Your friend just handed you a 10 grand restoration. Get to work. You will be proud in the end.

kempoyner said:

My intentions was to transform the bike into a black, simister looking cafe racer with modern disc brakes and other updated parts to make it ride better....

The Scrambler look really is not my taste but maybe I should restore this one, sell it, and pick up a more common Norton to trick out.

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If you want to have a cafe bike in the end, then sell this bike after you've gotten it running, but don't restore it. (It would just be to prove that it runs, but don't ride it because it would not be roadworthy.) It's actually a fairly rare occurrence for people to make money on restorations. That goes double if you don't have any experience at all with Commandos. You could then find a non-numbers matching mutt to do a customization and get the bike you want. Otherwise you could spend a year and a ton of dough on the resto just to turn around and probably lose money. Then you would have to repeat the process to get the bike you wanted in the first place.

kempoyner said:

since I new to this...so a 750 s model is not a scrambler even though it had the upswept pipes, ribbed seat, high handlebars and headlight ring? What was the differance between a 750 s and a true scrambler? Im not questioning the fact the bike my not be a scrambler, just wondering what other changes were made to a commando to qualify.
Also, the bike has not been started up in over 20 years. The tank had no gas in it and I see that ethonal will destroy a fiberglass tank, I probably should get a metal tank? I will keep the original tank and any other parts I take off.
I did polish the front brake drum and WOW! It is a beautiful work of art. Answered my question about getting latter year forks with disc brake, Im sticking with the drum. The big issue now is how the heck do you get the spokes shiney? I have tried several types of buffer styles and polishes but spokes shred buffer wheels, buffer balls and pads. I know I can sent the hubs in and have new spokes and rims made. But if there is a magic technique for getting spokes looking good....don,t keep it a secret!

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The spokes can be brought back to very good original looking by taking strips (1/2" wide) cotton rags and slathering them with Mother's Mag, then wrap it around and do the shoe shine push-pull. Lengthy, but works well. Another poster mentioned "dangerous", :shock: I don't really agree. Having worked in the metal trade my entire adult life, the plated carbon steel is fine for the application. If they visually inspect OK when you change the tire, then at that point decide if you want "glam wheels for $$$" or functional original looking. Having been in the arrid SW, you may have a VERY rust free example. Just looks like dust has adhered to the oily spots.

Dangerous is probably too strong a word, but I know when I pulled apart my 40 year old spokes and rims, the nipples were rusted in place and some of them I would not consider viable and most of them would not screw off without wringing off the spoke in the process. I guess that's what I'm getting at, they are not useful to straighten up a rim if it's out of adjustment. And my rims and spokes looked better than the ones here. I ended up cutting off the spokes. Now if you can leave everything in place and it looks good and is still within alignment specs, you don't have to adjust the spokes, no problemo.

I'm glad I replaced mine, makes me feel better. Something else not to worry about.

Dave
69S

A restored Commando typically sells for about half what's in it. Check out eBay and Cycle Trader. As I see it, you have 3 choices. Sell it as is, ride it as is, if its even road worthy, or step up to the plate and restore it. If you choose to restore and you do a full restoration, you'll have a motorcycle that is very appealing, fun to ride and draws onlookers like flies to honey. Not to mention, the satisfaction of doing something worthwhile.

If the s/n is 135088 or earlier it's an "S". If it's 135140 or later it's a Roadster. The pipes appear to be Paul Dunstall. DogT, R Types do not have a central oil tank.

R Model Tony said:

If the s/n is 135088 or earlier it's an "S". If it's 135140 or later it's a Roadster. The pipes appear to be Paul Dunstall. DogT, R Types do not have a central oil tank.

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OK, thanks for that, somehow I assumed it was made with S and Roadster parts, I guess I just didn't look at it close enough to see that FP panel. So the R must have been between the original Commando and the S? It's not listed in the 'Bacon' serial numbers I have.

Dave
69S

You're welcome Dog. The "R" was built alongside the "S" in 69 and is essentially a 20M3 "Fastback" with "S" fenders, seat and tank. Hope I haven't hijacked the thread...Concerning this yellow bike, if it were mine, I would restore it and look for a mongrel to modify. But that's only my opinion.
Regards all,
Tony

well gang, I have made my decision. The chopper pictured is one of the 4 customs I have built starting with just a frame. Typically this is more my taste...but after receiving the Norton and researching alot of sites, Im hooked. I do not think I could find a cleaner, rustfree foundation to start with...and I have no money invested yet. And to top things off, at work today I went outside to have a smoke. Guess what? A beautiful black and chrome Norton comes zooming by! It had a Cafe Racer flair but not overdone. That sound was so cool. I have never seen another Norton in person! An omen? It sure knocked my socks off. Its a much more refined look and sound than a Harley.
I am going to do a total restore with upgraded parts, No cutting or chopping ! Im sticking with the drum brakes front and back, but having new wheels/spokes made (in black) Mikuni carbs, steel tank etc. All parts removed will be neatly packed away and saved should I ever want to go back to original. I will keep you updated with pictures as it comes together. As with all my other builds, I will map out every detail before I start to keep from making costly mistakes.

Now that's what I class as a Righteous Chopper! If I ever put in way more than it'll ever be worth Commando again - it will be a chopper to offend everyone but likes of you of course. Norton crowd generally has a recoil reflex against choppers starting with the '71 HyRyder.

A restored Commando typically sells for about half what's in it.

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Yes similar to riding a new car off the lot, just open a package of nice parts and install it lowers its valve about doulbe on Commandos. Take stuff off to part it out and can expect twice as much back. A real dilemma many new finds face.

Glad you got to hear the signature Commando sound but it don't really stand out if surrounded by heavy traffic or big V-twins. One other unique quality of a good Commando, where as most other bikes make you aware of their presence a Commando sort of disappears out from under but for the pea shooters and the thrust. Heed the prior advice about lurking expensive to dangerous show stoppers in unknown Cdo not gone through soup to nuts.

Also do note few gals participate in Brit Iron related activities and none take their tops off at rallys like the Harley crowd does : )