New member with a new project with a question

acotrel · Jul 7, 2012

My opinion is that the more original it is, the more desirable it is, and consequently the more valuable. I've seen a few well restored commandos which have been perfect down to every last nut and bolt. They are to die for ! Dunstall and Norvil bits are very nice, and sort of have a history, but your bike will never resemble the works 750cc production racer, and a half hearted attempt will always look bad, and devalue the bike. If you want a racer -build one, but don't destroy something which should be restored. We've all done enough of that vandalism with our 'historic' racing.
To get your bike back on the road, there are probably about ten small jobs to do to get it respectable - none of them really difficult. All it takes is application to the task.

JimC · Jul 7, 2012

I am going to do a total restore with upgraded parts

That's a good decision. Not necessarily a wise one, as far as money is concerned. But, what the hey.......,

The Commando was in need of some serious upgrades when it was new, so don't feel you are desecrating anything. Those pristine, strictly stock restos are probably garage queens. If you want a rider, IMO, the upgrades are desirable, if not downright necessary.

Spending a week or so on this site, doing research, will probably save you some coin, plus you'll end up with a much better bike. Since you are fastidious as well as handy, judging from your previous work, I'm confident you will turn out a very nice Norton. Stay away from those never-heard-from-before local Norton "experts".

BTW, you mentioned retaining the drum brakes. Unless you are setup to properly do drum brakes, I'd suggest using Mike Morris of Vintage Brake, he has no equal for making the Norton drum brakes work really well.

You may want to look at Jim Schmidt's PWK flatslides before you pop for the Mikunis.

Hobot · Jul 7, 2012

First off only old Nortoneers will understand what they see is the real deal or modern modifications. Attend a rally to get best sense of this up close. But do note that one's ear is strained to listen to their piter pats of even firing running around here and there rather than strained with conversation stiffling ear plugs you can't tell from an ole Chevy PU with cherry bombs.

We should all get at least two Commandos, one to do up like say CNW that's more groin watering than your chopper up close...
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com/about/gallery.asp
They take trades on old Commando cores so only need another 10 grand or so to get one back completed. Last year at NY Cascades Empire rally we saw a new CNW delivered on a rack on back of a van ***to a man we all were absolutely stopped in our tracks longer and more longing that a full frontal nude dancer. They build/upgrade em to use long term too.

and one kept in factory parts numbers to really test your manhood on money, mechanics, mood swings and maturity.

Then maybe a 3rd one to really have your way with it that fits in its on classification...
http://lamb-engineering.com/press/Cafe-Rouge.pdf

DogT · Jul 7, 2012

You can put that bike back together in it's near original looking state and have a completely reliable Norton. Just do all the seal and bearing upgrades and new parts where needed, maybe get rid of the timed breather and add a functional one. It will still look like an 'off the showroom' bike if that's what you're looking for. Yes, they are a show stopper when they go by and not everyone has one. But they do require care and feeding.

Dave
69S

Hobot · Jul 7, 2012

Ugh a real stocker is a constant maintenance attention getter that tends to mess itself with just normal use but a delight non the less. There's plenty of examples of all the models kept in factory form that keeps the world wide vendors in business and if you've got a mostly factory find then logical to just restore from the good book and basically only need to replace the points ignition that wears out fast and get the Priemer Amals that don't wear out fast like the originals. But for about same money and less effort you could get the basics piece by piece and really make a sassy road going chopper that will draw a crowd of strangers and a tar and feather party at Norton gatherings : )

commando-choppers-please-t6850.html

kempoyner · Jul 7, 2012

DogT said:
You can put that bike back together in it's near original looking state and have a completely reliable Norton. Just do all the seal and bearing upgrades and new parts where needed, maybe get rid of the timed breather and add a functional one. It will still look like an 'off the showroom' bike if that's what you're looking for. Yes, they are a show stopper when they go by and not everyone has one. But they do require care and feeding.

Dave
69S[/quote

My Norton has the center oil tank with the aircleaner infront. Carbs attach with two rubber boots. The front of the oil tank has a chewed up nut sticking through a hole. That would be inside air filter. Nothing is attached to that nut (almost looks twisted off) is that part of the timed breather you mention? I was puzzled as to what that was. How does a timed breather work? Lastly, who sells 750S upswept pipes and mufflers?
Kem

rvich · Jul 7, 2012

I'm late to the party. First and most importantly, your joke about the greasy hand prints on the jugs was hilarious! Now while everybody has an opinion I noticed nobody jumped up and offered you a nice pile of cash for your "unmolested" bike. If the chopper is an example of your work, I would like to see what you can do with the Commando. Go for it.

Russ

DogT · Jul 7, 2012

kempoyner said:
My Norton has the center oil tank with the aircleaner infront. Carbs attach with two rubber boots. The front of the oil tank has a chewed up nut sticking through a hole. That would be inside air filter. Nothing is attached to that nut (almost looks twisted off) is that part of the timed breather you mention? I was puzzled as to what that was. How does a timed breather work? Lastly, who sells 750S upswept pipes and mufflers?
Kem

The hole in the front of the oil tank is the oil tank breather. That hole, if you look inside the tank, goes straight back, curves up and into the top hat thingie where it ends. It's just a sort of seperator to keep the oil from the breather from getting out the oil tank breather. Here is what the central oil tank looks like (unmolested), where the air filter is.

New member with a new project with a question

The right angle fitting off the left side of the engine goes to a rubber hose that ends up in either the top hat on a spigot, or if it's a later 'early' tank in front of the top hat thingie. Here is my 'early' oil tank with the engine breather spigot that goes into the to hat spigot. The later tanks have a spigot off the top of the main tank behind the top hat thingie. I have one and can get a pic if you really want one.

I always had oil dripping out of the hole in the front of the tank in the air filter, dripping down on the air filter, and eventually down onto the top of the gear box, where it would drip down from there and all over the bottom of the engine, prop stand, centre stand, etc. You get my drift. I installed a tube in that hole and brought it out the front of the air filer and into a catch bottle, and that stopped a lot of oil from dripping around, but the best thing I did was install a ball valve on the oil feed from the tank to the timing chest, and that has stopped the wet sumping and nearly all oil leaks from the engine. Here's my catch bottle.

And here's the ball valve in the oil feed line, but you better put a switch on it of some kind so you don't blow the top end from lack of oil.

If you need any specific info on the early bike, PM me. I may or may not be able to help. S type exhaust systems are available from most dealers. You will need the dog leg bracket and a few other parts if you don't have it.

Dave
69S

rpatton · Jul 8, 2012

Now that you've shown what you're capable of, it would be a shame for you to be constrained by the need to keep the bike basically stock because you can't do anything irreversible. There are plenty of bitsa Commandos out there that would only take up a fraction of what you'd get for the original bike that you have and then you could do whatever you like. There are plenty of people that could do the '70 justice as a restoration.

It would probably be really something to see what you mean by this.

"My intentions was to transform the bike into a black, sinister looking cafe racer with modern disc brakes and other updated parts to make it ride better."

This isn't a Commando, and its not sinister, but it's the kind of sacrilege that moves some people. A high caliber Commando build that isn't a restoration would be nice to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQV-tLbi4iA

cjandme · Jul 8, 2012

+1 -----"You may want to look at Jim Schmidt's PWK flatslides before you pop for the Mikunis"------ I've gone with the single carb that he offers because of my budget and the type of riding I'll be doing and his reputation for good customer service. I also went with Old Britts Power Arc ignition system, Fred and Ella provide really good customer service too. That Twin Leading Shoe front brake can be made to work pretty good and you gotta admit it looks super. Rock point has the stainless fastners you can use to put some nice finishing touches on it. Lace some new aluminum rims with stainless spokes and it will transform the look, check some of the other threads for sizes wm3 or 4 versus the stock wm2's for using modern rubber. RGM, Mick Hemmings,Norvil, Burtons, Colorado Norton Works, Etc... many vendors out there now. The way I look at it, Museums can preserve, we can ride. Cj

JimC · Jul 8, 2012

Museums can preserve, we can ride.

A big + 1 on that.

kempoyner · Jul 8, 2012

I am stunned by the members on this forum. What a great group willing to be so helpful and post pictures and detailed information. Thanks! I don't think I will do this, but I was toying with the idea of putting a whole differant front end on the bike. I have used "Mean Streets" frond forks on several builds. They have a style called "rumblers" that have a vintage look with boots and stuff. They can make them in all black. If I send them my forks, they will make a new set of rumblers to the same dimensions. It would cost me just under two grand. (not much more then redoing the original forks) The advantages? I could run dual, modern dual discs with black Performs Machine calipers, 1 inch diameter drag bars with black Performance Machine hand controls and modern grips and switches, I could run new style black Roland Sands wheels. I havent even looked closely as to what it would take to run a modern rear wheel with hydraulic disc brake. Maybe a wider swingarm and a spacer plate to move the chain out a bit. Then I could run a 180 or 200mm rear tire. Like I mentioned I am just toying with ideas to make a one of a kind show winner. Mom always said "an idol mind is satan's workshop!"

cjandme · Jul 8, 2012

The width/size of the rear wheel and tire is somewhat limited by the clearance needed from the drive chain. Cj

rvich · Jul 8, 2012

Man, oh man. It sounds to me like you should be exploring big bore kits, JS motorsport pistons, fullauto heads, and putting the whole works into a featherbed frame. If you have the scratch to order up a custom front end, the bike you have now isn't really a major consideration in the equation. If you are thinking in terms of spending 30 grand or so on this build, most of us don't have that kind of experience, only dreams.

Maybe you should buy this!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norvin-Norton ... 2c66823801

JimC · Jul 8, 2012

kempoyner said:
I am stunned by the members on this forum. What a great group willing to be so helpful and post pictures and detailed information. Thanks! I don't think I will do this, but I was toying with the idea of putting a whole differant front end on the bike. I have used "Mean Streets" frond forks on several builds. They have a style called "rumblers" that have a vintage look with boots and stuff. They can make them in all black. If I send them my forks, they will make a new set of rumblers to the same dimensions. It would cost me just under two grand. (not much more then redoing the original forks) The advantages? I could run dual, modern dual discs with black Performs Machine calipers, 1 inch diameter drag bars with black Performance Machine hand controls and modern grips and switches, I could run new style black Roland Sands wheels. I havent even looked closely as to what it would take to run a modern rear wheel with hydraulic disc brake. Maybe a wider swingarm and a spacer plate to move the chain out a bit. Then I could run a 180 or 200mm rear tire. Like I mentioned I am just toying with ideas to make a one of a kind show winner. Mom always said "an idol mind is satan's workshop!"

I put this in the category of bench racing, speaking strictly for myself. Of all the projects I've conjured up in my mind, one has come to fruition. It was back in the seventies. I built up a 1978 Ford van to use as a tow vehicle. It was an interesting project, for I started with a E-150, 300 c.i.d. six cylinder. Did the whole enchilada. Engine (ended up with 350+ hp 6 cycl. with big time torque), tranny, rear end, suspension, rims, tires, seats, lights, you name it, I molested it. Most satisfying vehicle I've had in my sixty-seven years. My Norton came close after I did a full restoration. If you have the ideas, the money and the time, I say, go for it. On my bucket list is a frame-up resto of a 1970 El Camino SS, with the attendant performance mods, of course. Nothing is more satisfying than bringing your dreams to fruition, with one possible exception. And that's usually fleeting, and expensive if you get caught.

DogT · Jul 8, 2012

Be careful how much you change the tyre size. I put a 4.10-19 instead of the standard 3.50-19 on my rear and it really upset the balance.

Dave
69S

JimC · Jul 8, 2012

In what way was the balance upset? According to my shop manual for a 1972, a 4.10-19 is standard, front and rear. What year is your bike?

Hobot · Jul 8, 2012

Now ya got your toes in area I know something about. When you change tire size and compound and compliance you need to test to re-balance air pressure differences front to back or feels like bike fighting back or delaying -over reaction to inputs. Once air dialed in then the main thing bigger rear does is make more heavy-sluggish handling but does give back more tire mileage. To get full advantage of the bit extra traction of fatter rear it requires keeping the rear over powering the fronts traction or counter steering front will jerk bike out from under. Might check into the 16" wide rims fitted to Norton choppers and long distance 850 like TC Christensen's daily rider.

TC's rear squatting and 16" patch size in view.

Now if you do to the Dark Side and make rear fit a real sports car tire that would be a great advantage if you have power enough to over come its spin mass. http://darkside.nwff.info/

It takes over $7000 to build a Commando engine up to make a modern fat meat any thing but a big butted bad ass art statement. If going to extremes best to source the special parts to start with and leave you current find for those that like it mostly like it is.

DogT · Jul 8, 2012

Tyre recommendations and original fitment on a 68-70 is 3.00-19 WM2 front and 3.50-19 WM2 rear according to the 'Riders Handbook' and that was on it when I bought it. When I put the 4.10 on mine, it felt like a hog and it fouled the rear mudguard too. Just my experience.

Dave
69S

cjandme · Jul 10, 2012

hobot this picture was just wrong man !! LOL,Cj

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