New to Forum, & life with a Norton. (commando 2018 - 961 Cafe)

TonyA said:
Hello and welcome . It is great news that you are able to get the dealer to send you the cable and have a look via team viewer. This assumes you have a laptop/connection to the internet , will be a good start . Then go from there , most of the sensors are available on-line . I am working on a list of part numbers that can be used to quickly get the information. I have never heard of a bad TPS , usually its the wires going to it breaking etc. With the electrical schematic you can check all of this with a multimeter. Because you have a newer bike , you also have a MAP sensor and member Clive says these can go bad as his did. So if you don't have a service manual you need to get one via email asap . Let us know and can email a copy of the Euro4 version that Norton offered to us for free as a download .
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Thanks very much Tony, very much appreciated. sorry about the slow reply, i have limited access to the computer and only at work so access is short and erratic.
All this advice is fantastic and much appreciated, the reply to this thread has been very encouraging. Thanks.
 
Clive said:
Hi and welcome to our self-group with the other addicts. With a bit of effort you can learn to live an almost normal, useful and productive life. Stick with it you will get the issues ironed out and enjoy this very unique machine; you have 2018 machine which will have most of the previous problems ironed out and will probably have genuine sensors/coils etc. The only ones which may cause issues are the MAP sensor and head sensor.

First and most important questions - is it on original ECU map/ cat/ pipes/ no thermal insulators on intakes? I assume so. Yes the engine light will go on and off. Mine went on while it was warming up at the factory on collection.... It will not be a pleasant ride until these are sorted but make sure the intake is tight and all pipes are on properly. With a bit of luck your remote dealer can provide some help. Strangely another new owner mentioned the power dying when the throttle was opened.
Hot starting is always an issue. My 2017 is now up to 12000 miles and has settled down nicely but still has the occasional hot start problem. Depends how many people are watching.....

Don't be shy in posting it is great to hear your experiences and we don't worry aboat speeling or granmar!
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Hi Clive,
Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay. Cafe, racer 961 Mark 11 2018 build.
really appreciate the reply and questions, as I've mentioned to others really glad i have found this group as i was questioning what have i done.
The bike is new old stock, 2018 model, i bought with "Race pipe option and fitted by the dealer, they also added to the ECU apparently to suit the new pipes ?
i didn't ride it with the original pipes but the original ones when the bike was delivered.
It still has the CATs i believe? and other than that still all stock. it looks like it does already have the breather pipe others are talking about ? perhaps these were added to these latter bikes?
i'll get vip so i can start sending images as well. Has wire wheels, and removable rear seat.
The seat clip broke the very first time i tried to take it off! that been fixed now. I've been told it has a OMEX ecu? not sure what the previous model was?
Thanks in advance Clive.
 
cliffa said:
Vernon, not sure if you've already fitted the relays but the 0-728-13 has a diode between the relay coil connections 85 & 86 ( as you can see in your picture) making it polarity conscious. I think some folks on here have fallen foul of that subtlety as it didn't match the bikes wiring so wouldn't work.
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Are you saying it needs to have this Diode or not? sorry little confused, i need to pull mine out and check these? i replaced mine but didn't check this item?
 
P- Rogers said:
Are you saying it needs to have this Diode or not? sorry little confused, i need to pull mine out and check these? i replaced mine but didn't check this item?
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It looks as though the original relays do have the diode, so wise to replace like for like (albeit better quality obviously).

The Honda relay 38502-MCS-G01 is being used by many folks, but I cannot see from internet images if that has the diode or not.
 
P- Rogers said:
Are you saying it needs to have this Diode or not? sorry little confused, i need to pull mine out and check these? i replaced mine but didn't check this item?
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Well, mine had the diode and so that's what I'll be fitting, but mine is a 2015 bike. Pull a couple from your bike and see what you have. I'd be interested to see!
 
The purpose of the diode is to reduce or eliminate the back kick (inductive kick) of the relay coil upon deenergizing of the relay. All relays of this type should have this protection as industry standard . Sometimes this will be shown as a diode , a resistor or a little box in parallel with the coil . SO YES , the Omron has this protection and is a great choice. You can look it up if you like on the OMRON website .
 
P- Rogers said:
Are you saying it needs to have this Diode or not? sorry little confused, i need to pull mine out and check these? i replaced mine but didn't check this item?
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I seem to remember it was the dip/main beam relay - the wiring was the wrong way round for the relay with the diode so I cut and swapped the coil connector leads.

Was riding through twisty wooded road, switched to full beam and no headlight at all even when I switched back to dip!
 
Clive said:
I seem to remember it was the dip/main beam relay - the wiring was the wrong way round for the relay with the diode so I cut and swapped the coil connector leads.

Was riding through twisty wooded road, switched to full beam and no headlight at all even when I switched back to dip!
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Good grief. I must have missed or forgotten about that.

You‘re lucky to be here !
 
Fast Eddie said:
Good grief. I must have missed or forgotten about that.

You‘re lucky to be here !
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Yep - something must have been seriously wrong with the quality of the relay so neither the NO or NC contacts were getting the common voltage! Norton's comment was that yes they were aware of quality issues with the relays and they were buying in the harnesses with relays attached so they had no real control over the quality. Sounds perfectly reasonable. As a random comment while typing I vaguely remember hearing, while at Lucas, of a legal requirement for car manufacturers to carry spares for a defined period of time. I wonder if this really is the case and if it applies to low volume manufacturers?
 
Clive said:
Yep - something must have been seriously wrong with the quality of the relay so neither the NO or NC contacts were getting the common voltage! Norton's comment was that yes they were aware of quality issues with the relays and they were buying in the harnesses with relays attached so they had no real control over the quality. Sounds perfectly reasonable. As a random comment while typing I vaguely remember hearing, while at Lucas, of a legal requirement for car manufacturers to carry spares for a defined period of time. I wonder if this really is the case and if it applies to low volume manufacturers?
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You are a calmer man that I. That does NOT sound perfectly reasonable to me AT ALL!

Someone saves pennies on quality... and puts customers lives at risk as a result...!?

Its a common excuse to blame suppliers and it is very wrong. The OEM has a duty of care to sell you a quality product. It’s their job to manage their supply chain. It is most definitely not good enough, or legally correct, to negate their responsibility like that!

Yes, I’m sure they have a duty to continue to provide ‘service parts’ but I’m not sure exactly what granularity is required (ie cutch plates or complete clutches, pistons or complete engines, etc) or for what time period.
 
P- Rogers said:
Hi All.
my first efforts at chatting on the forum, so I may make some mistakes!
I've just gone a purchased a 2018 Commander 961 Cafe (new, ish) to join my small heard.
always been a dream of mine to own one and the opportunity arrived and I dived in eyes closed.
very excited with the purchase and proud to say i now own a Norton Cafe. it had 78 klm on it when purchased.
I have since done 110 and hasn't been without its problems! hence me finding others having experienced similar, and how I've fortunately been able to find this forum.
I bought the bike interstate, and have since found out i have next to no support and or slow efforts to assist with my current issues.
I started to have the service light show up about 20-30klm ago and it would come and go.
Last week riding home and about when the bike had got up-to temp it stopped at the lights and wouldn't restart.
Currently it will idle but as soon as i add throttle it drops off, i can slowly add throttle and get it to about 3k but its not happy doing it.
I've since replace the cheap relays, and flushed the tank and added new fuel, checked the hoses, checked the fuel pump and that's working great, the only items i haven't done anything about are the sensors?
i have reviewed some of these posts but not in any detail and it sounds like i'm not alone.
I should also say he dealer has sent me a diagnostic cable and we are hoping to hook up via team-viewer and check the code readings to better narrow down the issue/s.
i'm far from a mechanic, but thinking its probably the TPC (Throttle position censor?) or the o2 censor and or both?
i get the feeling from the little research i've done, most have replaced the censors at some point and the relays is that correct?

Any advise would be extremely helpful, as mentioned i love the bike but would be better riding it.
Thanks in advance.
current bikes are ;
BMW R1150R rockster E80
Douglas Dragonfly 56
Norton 961 Cafe.
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Have you had any success talk8ng to your ECU? My EML is randomly switching on and off, interested to know what's causing this..
 
If you search for obd in 'this forum' you will see that this has been a long running topic with no resolution. I am in the same position - occasionally the light comes on particularly if the cranking voltage drops low when cold - but I know one day I'll need it for fault resolution.

It would be great to have an open discussion with the new management to talk about resolving issues like this where owners are outside warranty and a long distance from a dealer but need to diagnose a fault. A reputation for long-term support of owners who are buying into a special brand can only be good for the brand.
 
Clive said:
It would be great to have an open discussion with the new management to talk about resolving issues like this where owners are outside warranty and a long distance from a dealer but need to diagnose a fault. A reputation for long-term support of owners who are buying into a special brand can only be good for the brand.
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Love your optimistic outlook on life Clive!

I’m sure it’s on their TTD list... right below: sorting out the trademark mess, sorting out disgruntled deposit payers, emptying the parts bins by making that last batch of 40 961s, setting up a new factory and organisation, redesigning the flaws out of the 1200, redesigning and launching the 650 range, figuring out how to best utilise the brand in other markets with other products, setting up a HD style branded goods range, finalising their plans for a long term electric range, setting up a global distribution network .... etc

Get my drift...?
 
Ok point taken - what is the quantifiable ROI for keeping customers happy........
 
Clive said:
Ok point taken - what is the quantifiable ROI for keeping customers happy........
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Dunno. But it’s future customers that matter the most to them I guess. I personally expect them to get serious about a proper dealership network. My post above was mainly aimed at remote owners of old 961s. I’d be surprised if they’re high on the list of priorities of the new management. Could be wrong tho...
 
Clive said:
If you search for obd in 'this forum' you will see that this has been a long running topic with no resolution. I am in the same position - occasionally the light comes on particularly if the cranking voltage drops low when cold - but I know one day I'll need it for fault resolution.

It would be great to have an open discussion with the new management to talk about resolving issues like this where owners are outside warranty and a long distance from a dealer but need to diagnose a fault. A reputation for long-term support of owners who are buying into a special brand can only be good for the brand.
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Hi Clive you are right there, It would be great if we could find a solution, as you say there is going to come a time where we need it. What are we going to do, keep travelling miles many miles when the light comes on and stays on?
 
Fast Eddie said:
Dunno. But it’s future customers that matter the most to them I guess. I personally expect them to get serious about a proper dealership network. My post above was mainly aimed at remote owners of old 961s. I’d be surprised if they’re high on the list of priorities of the new management. Could be wrong tho...
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Lets hope you are wrong FE
 
Gazz said:
Lets hope you are wrong FE
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Well, no harm in hoping!

But just to be clear, the point I am referring to is only this one “It would be great to have an open discussion with the new management to talk about resolving issues like this where owners are outside warranty and a long distance from a dealer but need to diagnose a fault”.

And all I’m saying is that I expect New Norton to focus on a decent dealership network, with technicians, and parts, and support. So all that is gonna help tremendously.

I just think that ‘hoping‘ they’re going to put resources into setting up to support owners of ‘old’ Norton’s, outside of warranty, who live too far away from a dealership, is a bit optimistic. That’s all.
 
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