New electric start conversion

swooshdave · Aug 30, 2015

G81 Can Cycle said:
swooshdave said:

.003 in? How dare you! :wink:

Click to expand...

Well it will most likely be closer than that LOL. Our laser scanner has .0005 resolution. It produces a point cloud that we process through software to give us a native SolidWorks model. The accuracy of this model allows us to produce tool path for the CNC mills. So although the scanner has exceptional resolution, I leave some error factor for processing the raw data (point cloud), and the real world problems of converting the data (native CAD) to the machining process tool path (CAM surfacing)

Besides only a handful of people on this site knows the difference between a .001 and .003 inch variance, or have the metrology skills to measure such a deviation in a surfacing tool path.

My brain hurts now and I have used all the big words I know LOL

Since the outer is already CNC why wouldn't you have just used that file for reference? Then your tolerance would have been down to nothing and a half.

cNw · Aug 30, 2015

Swoosh,

That outer cover is made by a different company and I could not get those files to STS in time. So John moved forward with making the inner based on an original inner primary. This may mean we may have to step back and make some adjustments but at this time putting a kit together and turning some engines over is priority one. After that is done we will fine tune the actual design

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

G81 Can Cycle · Aug 30, 2015

swooshdave said:
G81 Can Cycle said:

swooshdave said:

.003 in? How dare you! :wink:

Click to expand...

Well it will most likely be closer than that LOL. Our laser scanner has .0005 resolution. It produces a point cloud that we process through software to give us a native SolidWorks model. The accuracy of this model allows us to produce tool path for the CNC mills. So although the scanner has exceptional resolution, I leave some error factor for processing the raw data (point cloud), and the real world problems of converting the data (native CAD) to the machining process tool path (CAM surfacing)

Besides only a handful of people on this site knows the difference between a .001 and .003 inch variance, or have the metrology skills to measure such a deviation in a surfacing tool path.

My brain hurts now and I have used all the big words I know LOL

Click to expand...

Since the outer is already CNC why wouldn't you have just used that file for reference? Then your tolerance would have been down to nothing and a half.

I don't have the inspection equipment to measure "nothing and a half"

swooshdave · Aug 30, 2015

G81 Can Cycle said:
I don't have the inspection equipment to measure "nothing and a half"

I have a coupon for Harbor Frieght for something that will work. Should I send it to you? :mrgreen:

G81 Can Cycle · Aug 30, 2015

swooshdave said:
G81 Can Cycle said:

I don't have the inspection equipment to measure "nothing and a half"

Click to expand...

I have a coupon for Harbor Frieght for something that will work. Should I send it to you? :mrgreen:

That's where I buy all my tools and Norton parts

Jeandr · Aug 30, 2015

Using a sprag :!: where are all the naysayers who said a sprag was a no-no :?:

Jean

swooshdave · Aug 30, 2015

Jeandr said:
Using a sprag, where are all the naysayers who said a sprag was a no-no?

Jean

Aren't sprays used on most modern bikes? Pick the right quality part and it shouldn't be a problem. Engineer it a wee bit better than they did for the MkIII and it shouldn't be a problem.

BritTwit · Aug 30, 2015

Isn’t the problem with sprags associated to their placement within the engine where they do not get adequate lubrication, and thereby fail prematurely?
Certainly this is the issue with the MK3 sprag.

mwoo · Aug 31, 2015

With regard to 'which battery to use?' I'd like to point out that the Mk2A 850 (and Mk.III) had their battery mounted across the frame rather than 'in-line' due to the plastic airbox. The space available for the battery is rather more limited than the other models and should be borne in mind when specifying a bigger battery for these two models. My Mk2A needed a considerably-modified battery tray etc. when a bigger Yuasa battery was fitted (for the Alton e-start). I'm a big fan of Shorai batteries and have them on two of my existing bikes - expensive though!

74ok · Aug 31, 2015

is it possible some Mk2As had the earlier airbox?

mwoo said:
With regard to 'which battery to use?' I'd like to point out that the Mk2A 850 (and Mk.III) had their battery mounted across the frame rather than 'in-line' due to the plastic airbox. The space available for the battery is rather more limited than the other models and should be borne in mind when specifying a bigger battery for these two models. My Mk2A needed a considerably-modified battery tray etc. when a bigger Yuasa battery was fitted (for the Alton e-start). I'm a big fan of Shorai batteries and have them on two of my existing bikes - expensive though!

kommando · Aug 31, 2015

is it possible some Mk2As had the earlier airbox?

The MK2 had the ham box, 2A has the black plastic airbox, both were made concurrently.

74ok · Aug 31, 2015

would i be correct

73-750 mk1

73-74 850 mk2

74 also 850 mk2a?

maan the wiki is a mess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commando

1973 Mk1 850 cc
In January 1973 the ‘Mk.5 Fastback’ was launched

kommando · Aug 31, 2015

Wiki is not the best of sources but none are perfect. The Mk5 was a 750 so highly suspect if it saying there was an 850 MK5.

307311 850 motor with black barrel, available as homologated model roadster and interstate only,
called MK2A for Europe. For USA with old type silencers and air filter Roadster,
Interstate and High Rider called MK2.

http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/csi/1245184/ ... hanges.pdf

L.A.B. · Aug 31, 2015

84ok said:
would i be correct

73-750 mk1

Did you mean 850 Mk1 ? Also 850 Mk1A from 306591.

84ok said:
73-74 850 mk2

74 also 850 mk2a?

Mk2 and 2A from 307311 (both types can be regarded as '74 models).

chasbmw · Aug 31, 2015

Would it be possible to make a solenoid activated starter motor acting on ring gear machined into a modified clutch basket, no need for a Sprauge clutch and the modern Nippo Denso starter motors used on twin cylinder BMWs would have the power to turn over a norton, using smallish modern batteries?

Still need a new inner cover, but no need for a gear train to turn over the engine?

74ok · Aug 31, 2015

sorry for the sidetrack folks, wasn't expecting anything other than a quick response or 2,

i'll look into it further, i wasn't aware of the plastic airbox variant being offered in 74 or that there were 2 diff 850 model designations for 74

thought 74 was mk2a period
============================

this info (below) i posted (which turns out is inaccurate/incorrect) is what came up looking into it quick,
along with an assumption or 2
73-750 mk1

73-74 850 mk2

74 also 850 mk2a?

L.A.B. · Aug 31, 2015

chasbmw said:
Would it be possible to make a solenoid activated starter motor acting on ring gear machined into a modified clutch basket, no need for a Sprauge clutch

Pre-engaged starters still have a 'sprag' or 'over-running' clutch (although this usually takes the form of a roller and ramp mechanism) which prevents the engine from overspeeding the starter drive.
http://www.autocorner.ca/pages/starterdrive.html

The overrunning clutch starter drive is engaged with the ring gear by manually operated linkage or an electric solenoid that actuates the shift linkage.

In operation, the pinion is turned by the overrunning clutch. When the pinion is slid into mesh with the ring, the shifting mechanism completes the starter circuit and the one-way clutch drives the pinion.

When the engine starts, the ring will spin the pinion faster than the starter armature is turning. The pinion is free to run faster because the overrunning clutch engages the pinion only when the armature is driving it.

-Roller clutch:

lrutt · Aug 31, 2015

bummer reading that the original air box has to be removed. Do not like KN's and do not want to remove original air box.

That is a disapointment, sorry and don't mean to be negative. Just like that ugly original lump for some reason.

Jeandr · Aug 31, 2015

swooshdave said:
Jeandr said:

Using a sprag, where are all the naysayers who said a sprag was a no-no?

Jean

Click to expand...

Aren't sprays used on most modern bikes? Pick the right quality part and it shouldn't be a problem. Engineer it a wee bit better than they did for the MkIII and it shouldn't be a problem.

THAT is what *I* said at the beginning of the thread, but some were saying a desing WITHOUT a sprag was a desired design criteria, now that cNw said a sprag was being used, it suddenly becomes OK :?: :?: :?: and the talk shifts to batteries and airboxes. The old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat" may hold true in some situations, but not ALL of them. The QPD design driving a ring gear on the clutch basket requires too many modifications to be cost effective and it is irreversible, once done, new parts are needed to go back (who would want that except a museum?) The sprag solution IS the cost effective solution.

Jean

cNw · Aug 31, 2015

chasbmw said:
Would it be possible to make a solenoid activated starter motor acting on ring gear machined into a modified clutch basket, no need for a Sprauge clutch and the modern Nippo Denso starter motors used on twin cylinder BMWs would have the power to turn over a norton, using smallish modern batteries?

Still need a new inner cover, but no need for a gear train to turn over the engine?

Chas,

We are well past the point of deciding how the drive system will work. No question we want to drive it on the crank. If you use the clutch basket as your drive, then you are essentially using the belt to turn the engine over. This we wanted to avoid

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

www.coloradonortonworks.com

New electric start conversion

swooshdave

cNw

G81 Can Cycle

swooshdave

G81 Can Cycle

Jeandr

swooshdave

BritTwit

mwoo

74ok

kommando

74ok

kommando

L.A.B.

Moderator

chasbmw

74ok

L.A.B.

Moderator

lrutt

Jeandr

cNw

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