New electric start conversion
- Thread starter cNw
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cNw
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motorson said:
Dan,
We will initially look at one ratio and make sure that this is the best possible for the electric start system.
Once that is in place we may consider making different ratios as long as they don't compromise the performance of the starter. However, this would be down the road as we have to stay focused on the e-start
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
www.coloradonortonworks.com
nortonspeed said:
I like the design of the Old Britts starter, no sprang.......hopefully it has enough power to turn over a Commando.
I run my BMWS with electric starter only, with modern starter motors they turn over high compression engines and gets the fire lit very easily.
cNw
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Hi all,
Couple of things.
John and I decided to support the National Rally in Asheville this year by giving away an electric start conversion (Well, a gift certificate for one when it is ready to go)
Anyway, congratulations to Rayburn Culbreath for having the winning number for this door price. Not sure Rayburn is active on this forum but if he is....enjoy your new push button Commando !!!
The development on the kit is moving forward. Here are a few highlights:
- As mentioned before, the kit will include a complete belt drive conversion. We found a really strong Poly Chain Carbon belt made by Gates belt that we wanted to use. Once it was determined that this far superseded the required loads John ordered up the cutters for the tooth profile so the front and rear sprockets can be made. The clutch basket will be set up to accept stock Commando clutch plates. One unique feature of this belt drive is that it is a 21mm width as opposed to the more common 30mm. This will allow us more room in the primary cavity for the gears we intend to use in the drive system
- We talked about making the inner primary in a cast alloy and even though this may still be offered as an option down the road, initially we will be cutting an inner primary out of a large chunk of billet aluminum. This approach will allow us to make changes and ultimately come up with the best design for the kit. The overall quality and finish will also be superior with this approach
- The final design is close and there will be a few surprises but I wont mention them yet. There will be plenty of talk once they are revealed....but we will leave you hanging for a bit longer
- The gear layout and materials are looking great. One great feature of the kit that we wanted to be sure to to loose track of was friendly serviceability down the road. In other words, make this kit something that can be worked on and serviced without having to be tied in with all cNw exclusive parts. We will be using a proven starter that is available from a number of vendors, clutch is stock Commando. Belts are readily available. The alternator will be a stock, Lucas type set up.
- A full CAD program has been developed and STS will be starting to make chips this Monday. First order of business is making the primary. Even though there will be plenty of room to make changes, it's really exiting to leave the drawing board and start creating something tangible
- It is still our intention to have a system shown at Barbers in early October (Yes.....this year)
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
Couple of things.
John and I decided to support the National Rally in Asheville this year by giving away an electric start conversion (Well, a gift certificate for one when it is ready to go)
Anyway, congratulations to Rayburn Culbreath for having the winning number for this door price. Not sure Rayburn is active on this forum but if he is....enjoy your new push button Commando !!!
The development on the kit is moving forward. Here are a few highlights:
- As mentioned before, the kit will include a complete belt drive conversion. We found a really strong Poly Chain Carbon belt made by Gates belt that we wanted to use. Once it was determined that this far superseded the required loads John ordered up the cutters for the tooth profile so the front and rear sprockets can be made. The clutch basket will be set up to accept stock Commando clutch plates. One unique feature of this belt drive is that it is a 21mm width as opposed to the more common 30mm. This will allow us more room in the primary cavity for the gears we intend to use in the drive system
- We talked about making the inner primary in a cast alloy and even though this may still be offered as an option down the road, initially we will be cutting an inner primary out of a large chunk of billet aluminum. This approach will allow us to make changes and ultimately come up with the best design for the kit. The overall quality and finish will also be superior with this approach
- The final design is close and there will be a few surprises but I wont mention them yet. There will be plenty of talk once they are revealed....but we will leave you hanging for a bit longer
- The gear layout and materials are looking great. One great feature of the kit that we wanted to be sure to to loose track of was friendly serviceability down the road. In other words, make this kit something that can be worked on and serviced without having to be tied in with all cNw exclusive parts. We will be using a proven starter that is available from a number of vendors, clutch is stock Commando. Belts are readily available. The alternator will be a stock, Lucas type set up.
- A full CAD program has been developed and STS will be starting to make chips this Monday. First order of business is making the primary. Even though there will be plenty of room to make changes, it's really exiting to leave the drawing board and start creating something tangible
- It is still our intention to have a system shown at Barbers in early October (Yes.....this year)
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
madass140
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Good one on the narrow belt, I've seen belts this wide on the rear of custom Harleys so the belts can obviously handle it, I guess belt technology has come a long way. I run a 32mm RGM belt with an Alton and yes it sure is a tight squeeze.
good to see the project coming along, running the Lucas type alternator will make production a lot easier.
good to see the project coming along, running the Lucas type alternator will make production a lot easier.
Sounds great Matt. Good time to own & ride a Norton.. I've never converted to a belt but heard they make the bike smoother so not afraid of that and I'm kind of glad your trying to stick with a stock type alternator.. Only time & miles will tell but I bet you'll get it right. Thanks. Glenn T.S,
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Hey Matt,cNw said:
I average more than 5000 miles per year of riding so... I can be your Canadian Beta Tester... :shock:
What kind of deal can I get? :mrgreen: tongue firmly planted in cheek.
I can't wait to see what you produce. I am sure it will be a top notch benchmark product.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
Hortons Norton
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Great to hear Matt!
cNw
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Making chips today as we were hoping. A couple of these inner covers will be made so we can confirm fit and actual clearances etc
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
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The Maney outrigger only supports the sleeve gear, not the mainshaft. The rear solution is to make a longer mainshaft and move the clutch "outboard", just like the factory did on the John Player racers.
johntickle said:
Not to start an argument, but I believe you are mistaken. The Maney Outrigger supports the mainshaft for sure, at least mine does.
I do believe that it would be nice to have the inner CNC cut to fit the Maney unit, if at all possible, and would surely be a bonus for me anyway. Once the program is in place, to have this as an option would truely be an asset to those who need/want that. Cutting/botching up a beautiful billet inner by hand for the outrigger may leave my hands a bit shakey pre procedure. I recall the nervousness when cutting into my old ratty inner that I now have.
all I know is this solution is definately the most attractive I'm seeing. Keeping the stock electrics is better than the Alton. And there will come the day when I just can't kick this bitch over any more.
Really looking forward to seeing the final product.
Really looking forward to seeing the final product.
lcrken
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johntickle said:
Actually, the factory used a longer sleeve gear on the racers, which allowed them to fit an "outrigger" bearing for it into the custom inner primary cover. I don't know about the longer mainshaft part. They might have had to use one because of the longer sleeve gear. Years ago Norman White showed me the factory drawings (which he had rescued when Norton left them for trash) for the extended sleeve gear, but I don't recall if he mentioned a longer mainshaft.
All the outrigger bearings I've seen for Nortons, including, I think, Steve Maney's, support the end of the sleeve gear, not the mainshaft. They locate on the end of the sleeve gear where the primary case felt oil seat normally fits. The sleeve gear in turn supports the mainshaft, so using an outrigger does help control mainshaft flex, but the mainshaft does not ride directly on the outrigger bearing.
Ken
johntickle said:
Tinkering with that old gearbox design will always render a patchwork. Best to start over, as Kenny Dreer did on the 961. By separating the countershaft and mainshaft (as did Phil Irving in the layout for the Vincent), a much shorter and sturdier cantilever shaft is made possible.
All we may need is an adoption of the 961 g/box for the old girl.
961-video-t5215-15.html
Fast Eddie
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mdt-son said:
And isn't the 961 gearbox (internal cluster at least) out of a HD Sportster?
BritTwit
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Don't know that it is identical to HD Sportster tranny, but the Dreer prototypes used Baker Transmission gearboxes. Same company that HD buys there gearboxs from.
I believe the Sportster has a 6-speed though.
No telling where Garner now sources the 961 tranny from.
I believe the Sportster has a 6-speed though.
No telling where Garner now sources the 961 tranny from.
cNw
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Ok guys....getting back on track with the thread after a brief gear box derail...
More machine time on the prototype primary's
Gears are being cut as we speak
Pics say more than words
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
More machine time on the prototype primary's
Gears are being cut as we speak
Pics say more than words
Matt / Colorado Norton Works
http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
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