My First Commando...

Tornado said:

What measurements can I make to confirm the bar type? Re-checked my order and it states they are Euro Roadster bars.

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According to the parts book there was only one 850 'Roadster' handlebar, 06-1046 'Semi-Western'.

The 'European' Interstate had the 'low' bar = 06-4123*/06-4887

*06.4132 according to the AN list

Hi mate if you want to drain sump to start the bike there should also be a smaller drain bolt in the crankcase near the the large sump plug you mentioned, make sure you have a fully charged battery and fresh fuel. I can't understand why you are messing around with handlebars etc before getting the bike running? I hope it runs well for you,how long has it sat around? I'd keep the single carb for now. It looks like a really good buy to me, good luck with it it's a much better riders bike than your triumph t100 , cheers

Tornado said:

WM4? I thought the 18"'ers were WM3's? The link to Madass' website seems to be the best balance price/quality...about $200 USD for rim/spokes/nips plus shipping...they are alloy, not SS...doesn't state make. If I want to be extra cheap, there's always the Royal Enfield County "brand" from India/Pakistan...$54 per rim with FREE SHIPPING ;-)

I do want to run the chain guard...so need to take that into wheel sizing account I suppose?
Yes I'm beginning to believe clock does not lie....there are some very minor scraps/dings in the bezel of the Tacho which tells me these were not just newbies thrown on after a hellish life to get better resale price. There is some evidence of a few tip overs....silencers have dings/scraps (mostly minor) and foot pets don't seem to be fully horizontal. Rear brake pedal not properly lined/parallel up with foot rest. And there is a good kink in the right side down tube likely from running engine dresser or highway bars when a tip happened. Gonna get that looked at by a pro to see if can be fully straightened in-situ. I've seen worse repaired on bicycle frames using two half shell heavy steel clamps bolted up and torqued to reshape the tube...

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WM_ is the rim width designation .
The modern profiles such as the Avon Roadrider are designed to run on wider rims than the older tire types sat on.

Your Mk2 850 came with WM2 x 19 front and rear, earlier bikes had WM1 at front .

The recommended rim width for a 100/90/19 Avon Roadrider is WM4.
I have Central Wheel WM3 flanged alloys (Akront)on mine now, they handle fine and are acceptable for the 100/90/19 ,according to Avon. I now wish I had waited for the WM4 s to come available.
When I ordered the rims, WM3 were on hand but WM4s were four months off, and it was time to go riding.
Central Wheel in the UK should have WM 4 in 18 and 19 now in whatever type of rim you like.
Their pricing is quite good as well.
Make sure to ask for a a couple of spare spokes in case one breaks in the future.

Here is the Roadrider fitment chart.

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/roadrider

MT 2.50 is the same width as WM4

Front tires have less tread depth than Universal, Universal less than Rear. A rear will last longer than a universal.

Glen

Tornado said:

Swapped on UK Roadster bars...starting to look right now!


View attachment 3726

One new problem...these UK bars turn out to be nearly 1 mm narrower diameter than OEM HiRider Ape Hangers...so now the bar switch gear will not clamp down tight enough. Suggestions? Was thinking to wrap a bit of UHMW tape around the clamp points to give them more bite. This tape is high density plastic with pretty aggressive adhesive backing. And less thick than electrical tape.

Also what should I do about cabling? Can originals be shortened somehow with new nipples applied? I have no adjuster junction box along choke and throttle lines.
Cheers.

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Negative on tape shim for switches. Use strips of thin aluminum cut from a beer can. It will perform far better. (lasting repair)

Go down to your Wallyworld or similar and in the car section where there's hitches and the like, get yourself a 1-1/2" box end or spanner. They fit great on that sump and the price is right. Be careful about filling the oil tank until you've drained the sump.

Re. WM4 rim on rear...will this mean interference with chain guard? The 16" rim with MT90 fatty tire has about 1 mm?!?! clearance to the chain...no guard on bike but have one coming from Fleabay.

No interference with a 100/90/19 on a MK3 at least. The wider rim just allows the tire to sit in the shape it was designed for.
I have WM3 on there now and can see that the WM4 would not pose a problem.
As far as using an 18" rim and wider tires, I'm not sure, haven't tried it. Lots of other owners have though , someone will know what fits and what doesn't.

Glen

worntorn said:

Your Mk2 850 came with WM2 x 19 front and rear, earlier bikes had WM1 at front.

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If, by "earlier bikes" you meant earlier Commandos then they were WM2 - 19 from the beginning.

I meant very early Commandos, I thought they were the same as my 68 650 at front ( wm1x19)
My mistake.

worntorn said:

I meant very early Commandos, I thought they were the same as my 68 650 at front ( wm1x19)
My mistake.

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Dominator, 650SS and Atlas front rims should also be WM2 - 19.
The part number (NM18350) for the WM2 -19 rim goes back to the early '60s.


http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Parts/1960s/NortonParts1963_1968.pdf
pdf p. 39.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Parts/1970s/Commando_Parts_73-74.pdf
pdf p.44.

Yet another thing to change to make it correct.
Although if it gets changed, it will get WM4, so still incorrect!

Glen

worntorn said:

Yet another thing to change to make it correct.
Although if it gets changed, it will get WM4, so still incorrect!

Glen

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Tornado said:

LOL.
Ya, Kinda freaked out to attempt a start right now. Got to find a "B.F'ing" spanner to take off that sump drain plug and confirm wet sumped or not. Oil tank is below the low mark....

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I will never touch that big nut again, I expect. There is another drain bolt just forward of the huge one, takes a 9/16 wrench. And the level cannot be reliably checked with the dipstick until the bike has warmed up and returned (mostly) all of the oil to the tank.

Tornado said:

Noted bike does not have any type of battery hold down strap/bracket...any photos to help me out how these are meant to be?

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Here's the Old Britts picture, showing the hold-down bar and straps. http://www.oldbritts.com/1973_g31.html
IIRC, the stock bar is longer than necessary?

Tornado said:

Tail lamp is not Lucas and is smaller than the metal back plate. I picked up a '74 tail light cowl...can someone show me how this is supposed to interface with the lamp back plate?...does not seem to fit over the edges as I'd expect....

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It shd fit just inside the edges of the back plate? http://www.oldbritts.com/1973_g27.html

Tornado said:

Also, discovered I do in fact have all three warning lamps on the headlight! Two are well hidden beneath the instrument clocks! What's up with that? Are the clocks meant to sit offset/splayed out to expose the lamps?

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Where they go is up to you. Some folks think it's tidier to have the clock cables inside the headlamp ears. For me, this has a "cross-eyed" look and I spread them further apart so the cables are outside the ears. You might have to spread them, just to see your lights.

The "big nut" should be opened every time you change the oil, and the strainer screen checked for metallic and other debris. If debris is present, the retainer clip should be removed and the screen cleaned before replacing. Also, of course, the source of any metallic debris needs to be determined and corrected.

Sometimes it's brass (likely a cam bush), could be white metal (rod bearing). If steel (magnetic) it's likely cam lobes and/or cam followers, but could be main bearings. If mixed debris, it could point to a serious main bearing failure (steel from the rollers, brass from the cage)

Hi tornado did you get the bike running yet? Cheers

Tornado said:

Tail lamp is not Lucas and is smaller than the metal back plate. I picked up a '74 tail light cowl...can someone show me how this is supposed to interface with the lamp back plate?...does not seem to fit over the edges as I'd expect....

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You need the pillar nuts. The screws from the lamp assembly (32) and the screws from the cowl (17) thread into these.



See https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/82/rear-fender-tail-light-and-tail-section

baz said:

Hi tornado did you get the bike running yet? Cheers

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Have not tried a start yet. Got the battery leads lengthened to reach the shorter battery. Will do a sump drain, primary case and tranny oil change next.

Drained roughly 1.5L of oil from the sump lastnight. Kept it clean and poured it back in the top tank. Level then at the High mark...will see how long it stays there.

Next I attempted to lose my kickstarting virginity....but only managed second base ;-)

got a few (3 or so) internal combustion cycles out of her within the first 5 or 6 kicks. Then nothing for more than 20 minutes of "humping". Noticed the kick lever beginning to slip on the shaft...tapped it back along shaft with rubber mallet and re-torqued the bolt very snug with a 3/8" ratchet. Another 10-15 mins humping and got a few more firing cycles...this time maybe 2 or 3 seconds of firing/revving upwards before I reflexively let throttle close down and she stopped dead. No more action for another 20 minutes of humping and I was done..."refractory" is the word I suppose.

Noted the kicker was again working loose. What's up with that? Any rec's to secure it or is it toast/needing replacement?

Why do about 1/2 of my kick attempts go nowhere with full body weight coming down on the kicker (I'm 215 lbs)?
I did play around with choke and throttle positions but really didn't have a plan I was following. What are typical positions for these on such a start up? Recall this is a single Amal 932 carb. Have not touched any adjustments on it...as seller stated he started bike as is but did need to play the choke (I think he said he was surprised it needed no or little choke to start).

Got a WM3 18" x 2.15" Alloy rim and SS spoke/nipple set on the way from Madass...$120 USD plus shipping was easily best deal going. Grabbed the MC resleeve kit from him while at it.

New correct length cables & other components on the way from Walridge.

Well,... you have a single amal, so I'm not all that sure of the exact procedure you would use, since I run dual amals but there are some known tricks.

1) use the bleeder initially until the fuel pukes out of the bleeder hole. This makes sure the carb is topped off with fuel and the engine gets a good gulp when you kick it over

2) I don't use the enrichment lever myself but some people do. You could try it. enrichment body down in the carb is choke position. Lifted upward in the carb body is choke OFF position.

3) My personal method of starting the bike is bleed both carbs till they puke fuel, then raise the throttle bodies about half way and kick it. Usually, it roars to life in one or two kicks. I pulse the throttle a few times and let it fall to see if the bike will idle on it's own with a cold engine. If not I warm it up for 30 seconds and it will stay running when I release the throttle.

If none of that works for you, then you are at "square one" on the learning curve for your particular set up. Once you make the necessary carb adjustments and learn what works best for your bikes starting procedure, it usually comes down to one or two kicks to start it most of the time. Sometimes when I park for a short time and the bike is warm, but not hot, it takes a bunch of kicks to start it, but once I got it set up the way I like it, it's starting procedure is predictible.

The headlight assembly that you showed is not a high rider headlight it's probably an aftermarket unit. The original high rider headlight has the headlight switch towards the front with the three indicator lights mounted behind the switch close together. The correct 7 inch replacement headlight shell and rim is fairly easy to obtain however, if you want the original glass that might be harder to find. Also the 7 inch headlight unit uses different mounting spacers (p/n 062035). For the indicators there is a rubber shield that was used only on the two outboard lamps and not the center one. The parts book says that there are three shields, but that is incorrect.

The tail light assembly that you showed appears to be greatly modified. The tail light mounting plate's stepped area looks as though it has been reshaped so that the tail light unit would sit a little lower? Also the tail light support bracket has been reshaped so it mounts lower. So if you want to mount the original fiberglass fairing you would need to replace those parts. You are probably better off getting a good used complete tail light assembly. With the tail light assembly there is also a special fender mounting bolt that has a 10-32 threaded hole on the top that you would need (p/n 063926). Along with the bolt you need a spacer (p/n 064016) and a thin nut (p/n 060651). The spacer acts as a thick washer so that the nut won't bottom out on the threads.

You mentioned that you need to get a replacement chain guard. The chain guard that you need for your bike is p/n 065818. That part number is found in the Mark II/IIA Parts Supplement book. That chain guard has a special cut out that goes around the rubber plug on the brake back plate. Along with the chain guard you will need a chain guard extension p/n 064822, two p/n 064823 button for the chain guard extension and a p/n 064824 spring. These part numbers are not in the Mark II Parts Supplement, but found in the 850 Mark III Parts book. There is also a chain lubricator that is mounted in the chain guard. If you choose not to use a chain oiler, you can replace that with a spacer that is also found in the 850 Mark III Parts book. The rear mounting point for the chain guard is mounted under the head of the shock absorber bolt. It is a special reduced height headed bolt so if you have standard type bolts used you need to change them. To get to the chain guard bolt you may need to modify a wrench so that it will fit in a tight area.

Slow turn signal rate seems to be a common problem with the Commando. I recommend soldering a ground wire to each of the turn signal bulb holders and routing them to a red return wire. If that doesn't help replace the turn signal flasher with an electronic type which are easily found at auto parts stores.

Your horn probably needs to be replaced with a good serviceable horn. On my bike I was able to mount a pair of horns from a 2002 Suburu Forester in the same area as the original horn. They seem much louder than the original. If interested I can post a picture.

As for the brake lights, there should be battery voltage to the white wire at each brake light switch whenever the key is turned on. If the brake lights aren't working then try jumpering the brake light switches with a length of wire (assuming you have a good bulb). If that doesn't work it is probably in the wiring at the back of your bike in the tail light area.

Last and least I noticed in one of your pictures that the plastic oil tube that routes to your rocker assembly has been shortened so you may want to consider getting a new one. Also with the new oil line there is a support bracket for the tube that bolts to the head steady that you may also want to get (p/n 065050).