Zinc oil additive

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CanukNortonNut said:
https://penriteoil.com.au/applicati...MANDO&year=1972&fuel=PETROL0.7&vehicle=204016
Click to expand...

When I use this Penrite selector tool it recommends Penrite Enduro 25W-70 (Mineral) which apparently has 1760ppm Zinc and 1600ppm Phosphorus.
Hobot's advice in reply #2 is...

hobot said:
Too much or not enough Zn+P gives similar effects, more wear and corrosion. Around 1200 ppm of each is what to look for.
Click to expand...

I looked at a number of other oils and I would have chosen something like their MC-4ST Mineral 20W-50 with 1220ppm Zinc and 1100ppm Phosphorus (see analysis of both below)

Any views/experience on which might be better?
Cheers
Rob
Zinc oil additive
Zinc oil additive
 

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Yeah, Steve - good point (but, to my mind, adds to confusion)
That link leads to Penrite MC-4ST V TWIN 20W-50 (100% PAO & ESTER)
1240ppm zinc and 1120ppm phosphorus - based on previous recommendations looks good.
Bottom line - how to choose?
 
Incidently the zinc levels in most UK monos are surprisingly low . See no objection to using a zinc additive in most monos because the chemistry is comparatively simple . There is not much of an additive package to put out of joint
 
An oil thread! I can't resist!

Is it true that zinc and phosphorus leave the oil and thus damage a catalytic converter? If so, then are the zinc levels above 1200 ppm intended to be run 5000 miles? And at the end of that period, how much zinc is left? I have seen it argued that oil with 800 ppm satisfies the goal if it is changed out twice as often.

OK, go for it!
 
robs ss said:
Yeah, Steve - good point (but, to my mind, adds to confusion)
That link leads to Penrite MC-4ST V TWIN 20W-50 (100% PAO & ESTER)
1240ppm zinc and 1120ppm phosphorus - based on previous recommendations looks good.
Bottom line - how to choose?
Click to expand...

Well maybe.....running on the road, use the 20w70 mineral, high zinc and change often.

Race/track use, or very very hard road use, use synthetic, Penrite 20w50 looks like an option! (thinking Comnoz style hard road use!)
 
robs ss said:
Yeah, Steve - good point (but, to my mind, adds to confusion)
That link leads to Penrite MC-4ST V TWIN 20W-50 (100% PAO & ESTER)
1240ppm zinc and 1120ppm phosphorus - based on previous recommendations looks good.
Bottom line - how to choose?
Click to expand...

Simple. Buy oil from a reputable brand, of 20-50 or thicker, and ensure high zinc content, and you’ll be fine.

We all have our brand preferences (as I’ve said before, mine is for fully synthetic Red Line and no one will dissuade me otherwise)! But so long as you stick with any good brand, min 20-50 and high zinc content, you will be fine, Dino or synthetic.
 
I got curious about zinc levels in my favorite oil (Castrol GTX 20w50 fwiw) and stumbled onto a couple of resources that may be of interest to an extremely motivated reader. One is a blog and the other is a string of test data, both from the same source. I read until my eyes glazed over and this guy's results seem to indicate that zinc is only one variable that cannot be directly correlated to cam & follower longevity.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/oil-all-the-data-1667481179

His conclusion is to simply pick an oil with a high rating and don't worry about the individual additives. Unfortunately most of his test are on the lower viscosity options of interest to the car guys. Sorry if this is a distraction, but made me feel okay with my favorite, especially since I can get it at any WalMart if I need to do a change while on a long trip.
 
Atlas Commando said:
I got curious about zinc levels in my favorite oil (Castrol GTX 20w50 fwiw) and stumbled onto a couple of resources that may be of interest to an extremely motivated reader. One is a blog and the other is a string of test data, both from the same source. I read until my eyes glazed over and this guy's results seem to indicate that zinc is only one variable that cannot be directly correlated to cam & follower longevity.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/oil-all-the-data-1667481179

His conclusion is to simply pick an oil with a high rating and don't worry about the individual additives. Unfortunately most of his test are on the lower viscosity options of interest to the car guys. Sorry if this is a distraction, but made me feel okay with my favorite, especially since I can get it at any WalMart if I need to do a change while on a long trip.
Click to expand...


Wow! Lots of data there, particularly the blog. Spent a half hour just browsing through it. Not sure how much impact it will have on my choice of oil, but certainly worth reading. Thanks for posting the link.

Ken
 
Re oil: About 5 years ago a good friend road his Commando from Mexico to Tierra del Fuego, back north through the US, through Canada and to the north slope of AK and then back to Mexico. He used, as he put it, "Whatever oil the local grocery store had when it needed some oil." The next year he rode it from Mexico to the east coast of Canada and back to Mexico. He has never used "premium" oils or any additives.

I realize one could argue that "eventually" his choice of non-premium oils with less than a jillion PPM of zinc will reduce engine life. Maybe... but his Commando shows no sign at present of any oil smoke whatsoever - I have been behind it many times on rides in Mexico. OTOH, I run 20-50 Motorcycle Oil and can outrun him! So maybe that's a case for the premium oil! (I can't imagine it has anything to do with me having twin Amals and him a single Mikuni!)

(Heavy Sarcasm) ;)
 
MexicoMike said:
Re oil: About 5 years ago a good friend road his Commando from Mexico to Tierra del Fuego, back north through the US, through Canada and to the north slope of AK and then back to Mexico. He used, as he put it, "Whatever oil the local grocery store had when it needed some oil." The next year he rode it from Mexico to the east coast of Canada and back to Mexico. He has never used "premium" oils or any additives.
Click to expand...

5 years ago, the change to low ZDDP oils hadn't been in effect for long, so maybe your friend got lucky and bought new old stock oil or simpy oils which had the necessary formulation. Furthermore, camshaft/lobe wear doesn't manifest itself instantly. It's hard to draw a conclusion out of this, especially without examining his camshafts and tappets.

-Knut
 
I was in agreement with Nigel, enough zinc, 20-50 or better and regular changes. Then I thought of Jim and the fact that he
changes oil, if I remember correctly, at much less frequent intervals than 1k miles. Now what?
Oh, it is an oil thread. Sorry Im forgetting. Calm down carry on! :-)
 
mdt-son said:
5 years ago, the change to low ZDDP oils hadn't been in effect for long, so maybe your friend got lucky and bought new old stock oil or simpy oils which had the necessary formulation. Furthermore, camshaft/lobe wear doesn't manifest itself instantly. It's hard to draw a conclusion out of this, especially without examining his camshafts and tappets.

-Knut
Click to expand...

I totally agree. One example does not constitute a test. But the reality is that most (all?) oil/additive claims are pretty much the same...claims made by a company trying to sell something or individuals saying, "I have always used [X oil] and it works great!" Science is nowhere to be found. ;)
 
Camshaft from my 850 MKII. Always used Casterol 20/50 per the owners' manual. I now use Valvoline VR1, hopefully this won't happen again...

Zinc oil additive
 
MexicoMike said:
I totally agree. One example does not constitute a test. But the reality is that most (all?) oil/additive claims are pretty much the same...claims made by a company trying to sell something or individuals saying, "I have always used [X oil] and it works great!" Science is nowhere to be found. ;)
Click to expand...

[X oil] you say? Where can I buy that stuff?


Take my money!
 
maylar said:
Camshaft from my 850 MKII. Always used Casterol 20/50 per the owners' manual. I now use Valvoline VR1, hopefully this won't happen again...
Click to expand...

Ouch! Newer seen a lobe as worn as this! A good candidate for the Hall of Disgrace ! :)

-Knut
 
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