What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)

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hobot said:
No guy like to find their rod too short, but an old mod to these rod to stifle oil path to clutch plates is slice rod in 2 unequal sections and put a ball bearing near the clutch end so oil drips off ball more than flows whole length of rod. Could allow a long accepted way to get clutch action back to normal
Click to expand...

Old mod .....but butchery IMO.

Short push rod is probably from the atlas. I made a dozen and hardened them only to find I replicated the atlas one... when in fact I was trying make commando spares to sell if people had hacked theirs up.
 
dynodave said:
I made a dozen and hardened them only to find I replicated the atlas one... when in fact I was trying make commando spares to sell if people had hacked theirs up.
Click to expand...

I don't suppose you have any of those dozen or so still kicking around?

BC
 
Stillreel said:
dynodave said:
I made a dozen and hardened them only to find I replicated the atlas one... when in fact I was trying make commando spares to sell if people had hacked theirs up.
Click to expand...

I don't suppose you have any of those dozen or so still kicking around?

BC
Click to expand...
Don't dink around with the push rod. They are made of oil hardened drill rod. Just buy one. They go for around $15.00.
Anything less and you'll have a mess.
What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)
 
I'm trying to fit this pushrod seal. I've removed the primary cover, adjuster and diaphragm spring. There is zero thread of the threaded end of the gear shaft available to screw on the seal. The clutch nut is right at the end of the thread, fully engaged, but leaving nothing left for the new seal to go onto.

I can't see how I can adjust this any. The primary chain looks to run true and is central on both gears, so I would say the primary case is adjusted correctly. Do all Commando's have the same length gearbox shaft?
 
Mart UK said:
I'm trying to fit this pushrod seal. I've removed the primary cover, adjuster and diaphragm spring. There is zero thread of the threaded end of the gear shaft available to screw on the seal. The clutch nut is right at the end of the thread, fully engaged, but leaving nothing left for the new seal to go onto.

I can't see how I can adjust this any. The primary chain looks to run true and is central on both gears, so I would say the primary case is adjusted correctly. Do all Commando's have the same length gearbox shaft?
Click to expand...
There are some extended nuts with built in seals available, perhaps you already have one fitted?
 
Thanks, didn't know that. Nice thought. I don't think so. It measured the same as the stock measurement in the Norvil / Dave Commeau instructions and, importantly, the pushrod is loose within the shaft, doesn't feel like it's snug in a seal.

I've cleaned everything off within the clutch housing and will put back together, with replacement clutch plates I bought from AN, as I have a few rides planned this week. Will be looking again next weekend. It's a mk3, I will run it at a little less oil than the primary drain plug, will just put 200cc back in for now. There was a fair bit of oil on the outer few clutch plates. Be interesting to see if the slip persists.
 
Or make this:
What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)


25 mm long, from an old valve stem.
O-ring from Amal set screw.
Shorten the push rod and place a 6mm bearing ball between the 2 parts.

Cheaper, neater, less clutter and a perfect seal:

What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)
 
Mart UK said:
I'm trying to fit this pushrod seal. I've removed the primary cover, adjuster and diaphragm spring. There is zero thread of the threaded end of the gear shaft available to screw on the seal. The clutch nut is right at the end of the thread, fully engaged, but leaving nothing left for the new seal to go onto.
Click to expand...

Then you may have to remove either the tab washer or the hardened washer from behind the nut.

andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
 
Yes, that's on the instructions, but there still wouldn't be enough space to get the seal on, let alone on, without touching the gearshift nut. There really is nothing beyond the nut.
 
Try running ATF in both gearbox and primary. Don't need a seal then eh. Also it is better at lubing the finer clearances in the g/box bushes.

Like all of Jan's mods, they are all excellent thou.
 
ludwig said:
Or make this:
What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)


25 mm long, from an old valve stem.
O-ring from Amal set screw.
Shorten the push rod and place a 6mm bearing ball between the 2 parts.

Cheaper, neater, less clutter and a perfect seal:

What's wrong with this (Clutch) picture? (2012)
Click to expand...
I like that idea!
One question - Is there a reason the section machined down for the o-ring is so long (5mm)?
Cheers
 
kerinorton said:
Try running ATF in both gearbox and primary. Don't need a seal then eh. Also it is better at lubing the finer clearances in the g/box bushes.

Like all of Jan's mods, they are all excellent thou.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Not supposed to use ATF in the mk3 primary, due to the chain tensioner system. But a little weeping from the gearbox into the 20w50 in the primary, ought to be OK? Might give that a try.
 
Mart UK said:
Thanks. Not supposed to use ATF in the mk3 primary, due to the chain tensioner system. But a little weeping from the gearbox into the 20w50 in the primary, ought to be OK? Might give that a try.
Click to expand...

The dynodave/Norvil seal should fit so perhaps needs more investigation why it apparently doesn't?
 
marinatlas said:
What is the width of that nut ( should be 0.383 )

Click to expand...
Yep, that's what really puzzles me. It is about the 3/8, measured in place, so probably the right nut. I do have both the tab washer and very slightly thicker lock washer on the shaft. Both are only thin. Removing the lock washer wouldn't give enough to catch the seal threads.

The clutch hub runs true. I replaced it like for like (Andover Norton) last year. I followed the manual and seated the nut @70ft/lbs a while back, since found 45ft/lbs is recommended nowadays. So it all should be well seated. The triplex primary chain looks properly aligned.

My gearbox shaft is not central in the inner primary cover seal. It is slightly forward. But it seals OK. I'm wondering if the gearbox is mounted correctly. But it works fine, left shift change mechanism is precise enough. Puzzled why I have no thread showing on the gearbox shaft? Did wonder if a mk3 might have a longer shaft than earlier models? But I doubt that, it's the same part no. 06.0384.
 
Mart UK said:
My gearbox shaft is not central in the inner primary cover seal. It is slightly forward.
Click to expand...

Usual on original inner primary cases apparently.

Mart UK said:
Puzzled why I have no thread showing on the gearbox shaft? Did wonder if a mk3 might have a longer shaft than earlier models? But I doubt that, it's the same part no. 06.0384.
Click to expand...

The Mk3 mainshaft is the same. I did have to remove the (06-3447) washer, however.
 
L.A.B. said:
Usual on original inner primary cases apparently.



The Mk3 mainshaft is the same. I did have to remove the washer, however.
Click to expand...
OK, first point is good to know. I can only think of one possible cause:
- too much of the shaft is being used up by what is on it outside of the clutch bearing circlip, 06.0754?

Am I right that the lateral position of the primary inner case only affects the lateral position of clutch outer / chainwheel, it won't affect the position of the clutch centre, which is determined by the shaft? Likewise, the position of the gearbox will affect the relationship between the clutch outer / chainwheel and the clutch centre, but not affect the length of the mainshaft available beyond the circlip? So the only investigation needed is how everything sits outboard of the circlip? Including, the width of the clutch centre?
 
Mart UK said:
Am I right that the lateral position of the primary inner case only affects the lateral position of clutch outer / chainwheel, it won't affect the position of the clutch centre, which is determined by the shaft?
Click to expand...

If I've understood that correctly, then the lateral position of the inner chaincase shouldn't affect any part of the clutch as the complete assembly (chainwheel and centre) is assembled outboard of the clutch location circlip '14'.

andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton Parts Drawings - Genuine Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Andover Norton Parts are the only Norton spare parts in the market manufactured to original drawings, within the factory-approved tolerances, from the correct materials, and with the correct finish.
andover-norton.co.uk

Mart UK said:
Likewise, the position of the gearbox will affect the relationship between the clutch outer / chainwheel and the clutch centre,
Click to expand...

No, see above.

Mart UK said:
So the only investigation needed is how everything sits outboard of the circlip? Including, the width of the clutch centre?
Click to expand...

Yes, (although that will be the complete clutch assembly).
 
Just a thought, but one possible reason for the apparent lack of thread length could be the clutch location spacer '15' fitted the wrong way so the recess is not on the circlip side (which would also put the primary sprockets out of alignment). Again, just a possibility, that's all, unless you know that it was fitted correctly.
 
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