What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Voodooo said:
Here at TVS Norton we take (PR) Public Relations seriously!
In doing so, it is our (PR) Primary Responsibility to provide our customers with a satisfying (PR) Progress Report.

We listen to our customers (PR) Purchase Requests and (PR) Performance Reviews.
From here we take your negative feedback and send them to our (PR) Process Re-engineering team.

Our state of the art (PR) Process Re-engineering team located in sunny (PR) Peoples Republic of China take your feedback seriously and (PR) PeRsonally.
So much so it makes their (PR) Pulse Rate dangerously high.

But rest assured, we are here to make sure that you, our few and far between customers are satisfied with your TVS Norton.

Our (PR) Process Re-engineering team realized that the (PR & PR) Power Rating and Performance Ratings were below the industry standards, so to better satisfy our customers needs, we provide a (PR) Price Resolution.

Our (PR) Price Resolution is a (PR) Public Relations standard that allows us to offer you a low ball offer on your trade in value, what better way to get you to swing a leg over a brand new TVS Norton?

This offer will not last long. Rumor has it, we only have enough spare parts to build 250 961 Commandos. So please don’t delay.
Contact our (PR) Public Relations team today and apply for a (PR) Purchase Request!

All other orders may be granted a (PR) Purchase Refund.

* Side note
At this time we offer no spare (PR) Parts Replacement. Don’t ask, Don’t Tell.
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Oh wow....you have far too much spare time on your hands. I suppose if you could get spare parts, you wouldn't have spare time though 🤔🤣
 
One fact that I don’t think anyone’s mentioned & it’s just an observation, 18 months ago TVS stated there wasn’t going to be any dealers , now there are 10 , I think now that they didn’t fly out the factory door quickly like they imagined, and because of the lull in production a lot of us biker chaps have moved on in our choice/style of bike ( like F.E. commented ) don’t think there was 40classic versions made at all now , that leaves 250 to be sold in total across 10 dealers & the factory direct , spares dept gone into radio silence as they gotta keep em to service/maintain there on 961 version , May around 100 sp & cr versions sold to date , so target of just 15 per dealer in next two years ( not inc factory ) .
The factory gotta keep at least one of each models to for themselves I guess.
Let’s hope there is modern commando coming soon .
 
Voodooo said:
Here at TVS Norton we take (PR) Public Relations seriously!
In doing so, it is our (PR) Primary Responsibility to provide our customers with a satisfying (PR) Progress Report.

We listen to our customers (PR) Purchase Requests and (PR) Performance Reviews.
From here we take your negative feedback and send them to our (PR) Process Re-engineering team.

Our state of the art (PR) Process Re-engineering team located in sunny (PR) Peoples Republic of China take your feedback seriously and (PR) PeRsonally.
So much so it makes their (PR) Pulse Rate dangerously high.

But rest assured, we are here to make sure that you, our few and far between customers are satisfied with your TVS Norton.

Our (PR) Process Re-engineering team realized that the (PR & PR) Power Rating and Performance Ratings were below the industry standards, so to better satisfy our customers needs, we provide a (PR) Price Resolution.

Our (PR) Price Resolution is a (PR) Public Relations standard that allows us to offer you a low ball offer on your trade in value, what better way to get you to swing a leg over a brand new TVS Norton?

This offer will not last long. Rumor has it, we only have enough spare parts to build 250 961 Commandos. So please don’t delay.
Contact our (PR) Public Relations team today and apply for a (PR) Purchase Request!

All other orders may be granted a (PR) Purchase Refund.

* Side note
At this time we offer no spare (PR) Parts Replacement. Don’t ask, Don’t Tell.
Click to expand...
When I worked for a machinery manufacturer, we had an Engineering Manager who was VERY fond of over using cheesy cliche's.
When he'd leave the staff meeting for a moment to fill his coffee/have a pee, a clever young Electrical Engineer would launch in a diatribe, of sentences & paragraphs....
"At the end of the day, we need to decide whether to fish or cut bait, and dig our heels in the sand... yadadadayada..."

We'd all be pissing ourselves laughing at him mocking the big boss.
Wiping tears of laughter from our cheeks when the boss came back
 
For me, Norton is now one of the most boring motorcycle brands in business. Ive lost complete interest in it.
Red carpet events, pedalling the same bikes that Donington were showing at the NEC in 2016, along with some seriously overpriced clothing, is not going to win many bikers over....even the London hipsters will be raising an eye brow at the clothing prices. The nearest they've got to a new model is the v4cr....which was essentially what we did in the 90s after you'd smashed up your Fireblade or GSXR and gotten a parts quote to replace the plastics. You bought a cheap headlamp and some bars from M&P and called it a street fighter.
I've obviously got a lot of love for the 961....I really do enjoy them with the same enthusiasm that Ollie Thiel has for the platform. Its history starting with Kenny Dreer through to its ten year period at Donington is also very interesting....but to put it out into the public eye now, is just desperately flogging a dead horse to the point that even Tesco's wouldn't give it a second glance. Garner knew it was dead three years ago, when he sold engine rights off. Even John Russell said it was dead two years ago.
They would have been better off just going quiet whilst they sort their house out, then return with a line up of two or three brand new models, totally detached from the era that they're currently trying so hard to say they're nothing like, apart from clearly being exactly the same.
But, I'm only a grease monkey, so my pissed off rantings don't carry an awful lot of substance or weight when it comes to telling a multi billion pound company, TVS, how to play with their new toy, Norton. They have enough cash to wine and dine enough social media influencers and journalists, so I'm sure it'll all work out for them eventually.

It's the NEC again next month, so it's Nortons time to shine by wowing us all with the unveiling of a new range of actual bikes. Maybe that's what they're gearing up for. I'd be bloody surprised though, as the modern way is to stir up interest via social media for months beforehand. If they rock up with the same line up, yet again....

Edit:
This is purely my own views on this. Yes, I 100% have an axe to grind, without doubt. I used to fly the flag for Norton, very proudly wear a Norton tshirt at my local pub....defend Norton, past and present, via social media. But a small handful of people, some of which I didn't care for at Donington, have seriously pissed me off now with their actions....they've burnt the bridge, not me.
 
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BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
One fact that I don’t think anyone’s mentioned & it’s just an observation, 18 months ago TVS stated there wasn’t going to be any dealers , now there are 10 , I think now that they didn’t fly out the factory door quickly like they imagined, and because of the lull in production a lot of us biker chaps have moved on in our choice/style of bike ( like F.E. commented ) don’t think there was 40classic versions made at all now , that leaves 250 to be sold in total across 10 dealers & the factory direct , spares dept gone into radio silence as they gotta keep em to service/maintain there on 961 version , May around 100 sp & cr versions sold to date , so target of just 15 per dealer in next two years ( not inc factory ) .
The factory gotta keep at least one of each models to for themselves I guess.
Let’s hope there is modern commando coming soon .
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Are they really "dealers" or do they just sell the Norton brand? Meaning full branding, merchandise, signage, and product actually available for sale?
 
Stu Bodycote said:
For me, Norton is now one of the most boring motorcycle brands in business. Ive lost complete interest in it.
Red carpet events, pedalling the same bikes that Donington were showing at the NEC in 2016, along with some seriously overpriced clothing, is not going to win many bikers over....even the London hipsters will be raising an eye brow at the clothing prices. The nearest they've got to a new model is the v4cr....which was essentially what we did in the 90s after you'd smashed up your Fireblade or GSXR and gotten a parts quote to replace the plastics. You bought a cheap headlamp and some bars from M&P and called it a street fighter.
I've obviously got a lot of love for the 961....I really do enjoy them with the same enthusiasm that Ollie Thiel has for the platform. Its history starting with Kenny Dreer through to its ten year period at Donington is also very interesting....but to put it out into the public eye now, is just desperately flogging a dead horse to the point that even Tesco's wouldn't give it a second glance. Garner knew it was dead three years ago, when he sold engine rights off. Even John Russell said it was dead two years ago.
They would have been better off just going quiet whilst they sort their house out, then return with a line up of two or three brand new models, totally detached from the era that they're currently trying so hard to say they're nothing like, apart from clearly being exactly the same.
But, I'm only a grease monkey, so my pissed off rantings don't carry an awful lot of substance or weight when it comes to telling a multi billion pound company, TVS, how to play with their new toy, Norton. They have enough cash to wine and dine enough social media influencers and journalists, so I'm sure it'll all work out for them eventually.

It's the NEC again next month, so it's Nortons time to shine by wowing us all with the unveiling of a new range of actual bikes. Maybe that's what they're gearing up for. I'd be bloody surprised though, as the modern way is to stir up interest via social media for months beforehand. If they rock up with the same line up, yet again....
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I fear for your life now. When Stephen Spencer reads this, you’re in BIG TROUBLE
 
Damn right he’s in BIG TROUBLE!

I‘ve arranged for him to receive a …….‘visit’.…..to his workshop!!:oops:

We’ll see what his Motorvations are then!!

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
 
Fast Eddie said:
The reason I’m ‘negative’ is I can’t give them my money !

I was very interested in a 961 but was put off by the combination of a lack of info regarding the changes and stories of the old problems still being there. Perhaps I’m over sensitive, but ’perception is reality’ at times like this.

I had a Superlight on order but they dropped it. I would order one again tomorrow if they offered it.

Currently I’m looking at Triumph scramblers as a kind of ‘knock around’ bike. An Atlas would be PERFECT but alas, they dropped it.

And my main gripe is that I don’t think I’m very unusual. I think that one or the other of my interests above apply to a lot of potential buyers. I think Norton are missing out on HUGE sales and revenue.

And no, before anyone suggests it, I’m not the least bit interested in the purchase of a V4SV or CR. Which again, I don’t think makes me very unusual.
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I think there’ll be time in the future to give them your money FE.

If there is a ‘perception‘ that the Birmingham 961 has the same flaws as the Donington bikes, I think that may be disabused over time - with some medium/long term testing, if not in the interim (IMO). Notwithstanding ‘that bike’, other reports seem to be pretty positive.

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

I seem to remember most of us had issues ‘right off the bat‘ did’nt we, until certain tasks were complete - for me it was ECU change under warranty, pipes opened up to let the thing breath, sensors changed etc. Only time will tell of course - the warranty period is time enough you would hope.

Seem to remember saying I’d eat my hat if they did’nt adopt the Atlas! But we‘ve discussed at length why further Donington models were likely not adopted. I guess criticism has also been levelled that they have only brought Donington bikes to the market and none of their own. Don’t suppose we can have it both ways.

The next model lineup is key and no doubt Norton has a plan, although the fact that we don’t know it is frustrating at best. You’d have to hope that as soon as they resolve the lineup they would start to release promo information. The possible approach that silence might build expectation, rather that frustration, would seem a little flawed.
 
City Garage said:
Are they really "dealers" or do they just sell the Norton brand? Meaning full branding, merchandise, signage, and product actually available for sale?
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The ones I’ve seen stock one or two 961s. I’m not aware of any dealers stocking V4s. Or the overpriced merchandise either.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I think there’ll be time in the future to give them your money FE.

If there is a ‘perception‘ that the Birmingham 961 has the same flaws as the Donington bikes, I think that may be disabused over time - with some medium/long term testing, if not in the interim (IMO). Notwithstanding ‘that bike’, other reports seem to be pretty positive.

View attachment 110398

I seem to remember most of us had issues ‘right off the bat‘ did’nt we, until certain tasks were complete - for me it was ECU change under warranty, pipes opened up to let the thing breath, sensors changed etc. Only time will tell of course - the warranty period is time enough you would hope.

Seem to remember saying I’d eat my hat if they did’nt adopt the Atlas! But we‘ve discussed at length why further Donington models were likely not adopted. I guess criticism has also been levelled that they have only brought Donington bikes to the market and none of their own. Don’t suppose we can have it both ways.

The next model lineup is key and no doubt Norton has a plan, although the fact that we don’t know it is frustrating at best. You’d have to hope that as soon as they resolve the lineup they would start to release promo information. The possible approach that silence might build expectation, rather that frustration, would seem a little flawed.
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You really put too much hope into the 961 and TVS Norton.
Like Stu said, Garner knew the 961 days were numbered and that’s another reason why he probably sold it to China.

If anyone thinks a new commando with a ICE motor is coming, think again.

Keep your optimism up. It’s humorous to some of us.

Even triumph is discontinuing the Thruxton now. The cafe bike days are numbered. The new trend is ADV and scramblers. The proof is already out there.
 
You can't pitch a bike as "same icon, different standard", alongside advising Donington owners not to ride their bikes....yes, that's been their actual advice to people who have phoned up looking to either buy parts or try to book in for work with them.....and then send bikes out with the same real world issues.
The best one was Ardingly, where we had 19 961's on show. I very proudly took 1st place with my bitsa....with two other Motorvated bikes also taking rosettes. Blowing my own trumpet now, fuck it. The only bike I saw leaking oil that day was also the only Solihull bike in attendance....different standard indeed. This is not early days teething problems, they've got many of the old designers still there working through the bike....they know the bikes, they know the problems....they've had the time and all the resources in the world given to them and they still can't get it right. They can't even get the aesthetic details right....exhausts sitting on the piss, along with the reservoirs on the wonk too. Minor details, but when you're buying an expensive hand built motorcycle, detail is key....detail is what stands out. If they can't get the 961 right, what hope do you think the V4SV has, given the list they compiled for the V4SS?.....Probably why we've seen very little of the V4 being sold, they're still stood there scratching their heads.
I 100% will not support them, not only for how they treated myself (being banned from the Solihull site doesn't bother me, it Motorvated me....but wasting 3hrs of my time is another thing) but also for how they've treated the bikes and their owners from the Donington era. I'm also sick of the sly digs they constantly make towards the Donington bikes....latest being Christian Gladwell in his Road Holder interview, stating his hate-hate relationship with his Donington bike, but now he's bought a re-release 961. Yeah sure.
If I was in the market for a new bike, I'd buy a Ducati.

Rant over. Sorry.
 
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Stu Bodycote said:
You can't pitch a bike as "same icon, different standard", alongside advising Donington owners not to ride their bikes....yes, that's been their actual advice to people who have phoned up looking to either buy parts or try to book in for work with them.....and then send bikes out with the same issues.
The best one was Ardingly, where we had 19 961's on show. I very proudly took 1st place with my bitsa....with two other Motorvated bikes also taking rosettes. Blowing my own trumpet now, fuck it. The only bike I saw leaking oil that day was also the only Solihull bike in attendance....different standard indeed. This is not early days teething problems, they've got many of the old designers still there working through the bike....they know the bikes, they know the problems....they've had the time and all the resources in the world given to them and they still can't get it right. If they can't get the 961 right, what hope do you think the V4SV has, given the list they compiled for the V4SS?.....Probably why we've seen very little of the V4 being sold, they're still stood there scratching their heads.
I 100% will not support them, not only for how they treated myself, but also for how they've treated the bikes and their owners from the Donington era. I'm sick of the sly digs they constantly make towards the Donington bikes....latest being Christian Gladwell in his Road Holder interview, stating his hate-hate relationship with his Donington bike, but now he's bought a re-release 961. Yeah sure.
If I was in the market for a new bike, I'd buy a Ducati.
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100%
 
Voodooo said:
You really put too much hope into the 961 and TVS Norton.
Like Stu said, Garner knew the 961 days were numbered and that’s another reason why he probably sold it to China.

If anyone thinks a new commando with a ICE motor is coming, think again.

Keep your optimism up. It’s humorous to some of us.

Even triumph is discontinuing the Thruxton now. The cafe bike days are numbered. The new trend is ADV and scramblers. The proof is already out there.
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Hope? Yes, I certainly hope they succeed. Happy to maintain a balanced view, as I see it Voodoo.

I think if the SP proves to be a reliable machine, then that’s an awesome outcome for those guys that buy. They get the bike that each of us fell in love with, deserved but never received. Hopefully all of the good stuff without the bad.

Not only that, but it will also be somewhat unique right? It ain’t a tainted Donington machine for a start. And, who is ever gonna build another air-cooled, push rod, parallel twin with the authentic, classic ride experience that provides? Want a turbine smooth, water cooled classic - take yer pick.

Did Garner know the 961’s days were numbered or his own? Was the sale of the 961 engine to China not just a last minute cash grab as he was on his way outa the door? That’s certainly how it seemed.

Don’t think we can say that Adv bikes are a new trend, although they are getting even bigger. And rightly so, they are awesome. The cafe racer type bike seems as popular as ever with the majority of manufacturers having models in their line-up for 23-24. There are also an inordinate number of custom builders doing a full range of cafe bikes. I’d be surprised if they’re on the way out. Have you read something in the motorcycle press?

I’d take a bet that Norton’s next bikes will be ICE and as they’ve hinted, something for everyone - meaning price range I guess. I don’t believe for a moment that these will come out of India. Nor that the EV will be next cab off the rank. Could be wrong though - often am!
 
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Nah, they knew the 961 was done, of course it was done....its as old as the hills, and the market has moved on, not only with many major manufacturers also offering factory retros, but also with the scene moving on. Skinner had sketched an impressive future line up of bikes.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Nah, they knew the 961 was done, of course it was done....its as old as the hills, and the market has moved on, not only with many major manufacturers also offering factory retros, but also with the scene moving on. Skinner had sketched an impressive future line up of bikes.
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Skinners still there I think Stu. Maybe he will be key to what we see in the future? Whichever way they go, it should still be pretty interesting.

All else aside, whatever each of us may think, our past experiences accounted for - axes to grind or no - Norton Motorcycles building bikes in the UK again is infinitely preferable to the marque being consigned to the grave. With the epitaph ‘Buried by Garner - January 2020’.

I’d hope we could all agree on that.
 
Yeah Skinner is still at Norton. He's obviously VERY good at drawing a very pretty bike....the Dominator, Domiracer and V4ss are three bikes that are unquestionably stunning to look at.
I dont think anyone can say Garner killed Norton....he bought it as a motorcycle brand that was living in a drawer in America. Yes, the whole thing went tits up due to being poorly managed, that is certainly not open to contestation.....but the brand after being brought back to the UK, and after all was said and done about it, was still worth an initial purchase price of over £16m to TVS. We just need one of TVS's competitors to buy another dormant British motorcycle name and then we may see some actual movement. If you have one pizzeria in a town, they can sit back and be complacent.....but when a competitor moves in to the same town....things have to progress 🤣
 
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