Funny. When I look up the word Iconic I get this meaning from the Webster dictionary.
Description 2a and 2b DO NOT describe TVS Norton at all.
When I do a search for Norton, I get Norton anti virus.
Attachments
Last edited:
What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
- Thread starter 74ok
- Start date
Description 2a and 2b DO NOT describe TVS Norton at all.
When I do a search for Norton, I get Norton anti virus.
concours
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 8,796
Bike magazine is doing everything they can to advertise, er, um, REPORT on their progress. A few months ago I roared with laughter at the picture of the frame on the CMM.
This month, it's "let's celebrate poor joint design & crater cracks in our welds!"
This month, it's "let's celebrate poor joint design & crater cracks in our welds!"
What does CMM have to do with Norton or this topic?
Last edited:
concours
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 8,796
City Garage
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2018
- Messages
- 893
I’m sure you will get accused of not being relevant to the discussion. I mean a definition out of Webster’s dictionary it’s probably not good enough.
I mean one of the things we do here at the shop is build vintage Nortons but I don’t understand what’s iconic or not and I certainly must not understand Norton in general. I certainly have no business giving my opinion because I have no knowledge of the motorcycle industry, no knowledge of finance, no knowledge of the distribution networks or dealer networks in general
But to get back on topic. TVS is not iconic either
And until somebody comes up with some new sales data or something that shows there’s actually regular purchases TVS is a failure by any business standard even if it’s a “long-term“ investment.
I don’t care if they spent 50 million or 100 million they’ve only produced a small amount of motorcycles. Not to mention all the free government money they have been given as well
Not so iconic in my book
I edited my post. Still don’t understand your point
concours
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 8,796
My point is, a bike magazine showing a picture (and gushing about the quality related to) of a Norton employee using a CMM to measure a frame weldment is a comical example of how misguided their alleged "production" efforts are.
Stephen_Spencer
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- May 31, 2017
- Messages
- 2,350
If you like CG.
My discussion point was that as an Englishman, I am more likely to see a famous British motorcycle manufacturer as ‘iconic’ than an American may.
No value, because there is an element of interpretation/judgement/perception and opinion to that status (no definitive list of what is or is not iconic). Yours is obviously different to mine.
City Garage
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2018
- Messages
- 893
Hold on...I need to review my word-of the day calendar to figure out the big words. David Hasselhoff is big in Germany now that guy is iconic!
Last edited:
Stephen_Spencer
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- May 31, 2017
- Messages
- 2,350
We are discussing the iconic status of Norton Motorcycles as a historical brand though aren’t we - not just the current owners?
Try searching Norton Motorcycles or The Norton Motorcycle Company.
We may have to agree to disagree here Voodoo, especially if we’re discussing different things
. TVS, most certainly not iconic - unless you live in India maybe.Alex Trebek is dead now.We are discussing the iconic status of Norton Motorcycles as a historical brand though aren’t we - not just the current owners?
Try searching Norton Motorcycles or The Norton Motorcycle Company.
We may have to agree to disagree here Voodoo, especially if we’re discussing different things
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2016
- Messages
- 172
Here's the view from ChatGPT based on its data as at September 2021. It will be interesting to see if it gives the same response in a few years time.
Yes, Norton is considered an iconic motorcycle brand. Norton Motorcycles is a British manufacturer with a long and storied history in the motorcycle industry. It was founded in 1898 and has produced a range of iconic and classic motorcycles over the years. Norton is known for its racing heritage and iconic models like the Norton Manx and the Norton Commando. While the brand has faced various challenges and ownership changes throughout its history, it remains a symbol of British motorcycle craftsmanship and performance, making it an iconic name in the motorcycle world.
Yes, Norton is considered an iconic motorcycle brand. Norton Motorcycles is a British manufacturer with a long and storied history in the motorcycle industry. It was founded in 1898 and has produced a range of iconic and classic motorcycles over the years. Norton is known for its racing heritage and iconic models like the Norton Manx and the Norton Commando. While the brand has faced various challenges and ownership changes throughout its history, it remains a symbol of British motorcycle craftsmanship and performance, making it an iconic name in the motorcycle world.
BritTwit
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,942
This whole iconic/not iconic issue simply comes down historical context.
If you are one who is aware of the events/achievements from the past, then you know what Norton was back in the day, and it was indeed an iconic motorcycle brand.
However, if you are, as many young-ish folks today are, an empty headed, trend chasing snow flake, then the name Norton only represents a brand of anti-virus software. To be honest though, Norton has been out of the picture for decades. Before Donington, the last Norton motorcycle sold to the public in the US was in 1975. So you can excuse the current motorcycle community for not knowing that Norton motorcycles existed in the past, or that it was an iconic brand.
If you are one who is aware of the events/achievements from the past, then you know what Norton was back in the day, and it was indeed an iconic motorcycle brand.
However, if you are, as many young-ish folks today are, an empty headed, trend chasing snow flake, then the name Norton only represents a brand of anti-virus software. To be honest though, Norton has been out of the picture for decades. Before Donington, the last Norton motorcycle sold to the public in the US was in 1975. So you can excuse the current motorcycle community for not knowing that Norton motorcycles existed in the past, or that it was an iconic brand.
But the point trying to be made is, everyone, including non motorcyclist know what a Harley, Honda, Yamaha, is.
Young and old.
Not so for a brand name that’s been around since 1898.
BritTwit
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,942
Got it.
All I'm saying is that Norton hasn't been around the last 40 years, Harley, Honda, Yamaha are here every day.
If I ask a young guy with a new Dodge Challenger, "dude, have you ever heard of a Duesenberg Special." He wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about, because Dueses went extinct in the 30's. But that doesn't make the Duesenberg less iconic.
Dueses had 350HP motors back in the early 30's, anybody who was somebody back then owned one.
Today the name is relatively obscure, unless you're a classic car guy.
But the Dueses are iconic royalty, IMHO like Norton.
City Garage
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2018
- Messages
- 893
ChatGPT is crowdsourced so if it finds articles etc with Norton and Iconic together its going to say that. In years past it was iconic but after 1975 not so much.
Persoanlly, I'll think we will see new Norton ICE bikes being sold in India first. The electric bike from Norton I suspect will be the next new bike in the UK. TVS Motor can't ignore home sales figures, the new Triumph 400 pre-orders of 12,000, the new Harley Davidson 400 to be made in India model with 25,000 pre-orders. I suspect they will want to use Norton name to eat into those figures at home.
Stephen_Spencer
VIP MEMBER
- Joined
- May 31, 2017
- Messages
- 2,350
Agreed BT.
It seems clear that Iconic status is often based around an historical period and/or place and in a historical context. The Norton brand was so prominent for such a long time, their racing pedigree so influencial that the marque (and that logo) was indelibly imprinted on the DNA of most bikers in the UK (and elsewhere to a much lesser degree) over several generations - my grandfathers, fathers and my own. Part of the British zeitgeist of the time.
I guess we might also forget the part that Norton (and Triumph) played in the Cafe Racer scene and how those bikes, stripped down and paired back for speed, influenced how modern sports bikes were developed. The Cafe Racer scene is one of the fastest growing biking sub-cultures in existence today.
At worst the marque will continue to fade over time. Fade, but not disappear - it would remain in a historical context, an historically iconic motorcycle marque; easy to access through modern media you would hope. At best, Norton Birmingham succeed and can bring that history to a whole new generation.
It’s AMAZING?
How can a small company like Buell, design brand new motorcycles from the ground up, send emails, post news and up dates on social media, have test and display models, with providing new models and updates to potential customers?????
Yet!
TVS Norton which only offers Donington model motorcycles (2 models), hardly provides any news or updates or information and has put multi millions into a factory.
Oh I forgot to also mention, Buell offers clothing and other items.
How can a small company like Buell, design brand new motorcycles from the ground up, send emails, post news and up dates on social media, have test and display models, with providing new models and updates to potential customers?????
Yet!
TVS Norton which only offers Donington model motorcycles (2 models), hardly provides any news or updates or information and has put multi millions into a factory.
Oh I forgot to also mention, Buell offers clothing and other items.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2023
- Messages
- 81
Yes, sadly this sums it up. No easy explanation to it.
The published leadership of the company has impressive credentials, which has led me to believe that there is some hidden flaw working in the background against them, either externally or of their own making. Anything from silent quitting or negative motivation to a plan which only took the existing models as a bare interim solution, an unwanted child, and is sabotaging them until they spawn their own offspring. Of course, even if this were the case, every normal company would still be trying to make the best of it. It´s just that we are almost collectively not convinced that what they are showing is "the best of it".
For this part, at least, Garner must be laughing from somewhere. Imagine what he would do with a 100+ million. OK, he would keep some for himself, but whatever would be left would still go a very long way, maybe even all the way. Or take Greer. Or any other enthusiast or even people on here. Not that the current way the company is operated makes the hypothetical comparison difficult for anybody else.
I am looking forward to the day this will be resolved, for the good or bad, just resolved. What is clear is that the current state cannot go on for long. Something has to give. Either they start acting up, or they announce they are discontinuing the current models in favour of some miraculous new lineup, or TVS will say they misjudged and are closing down or restructuring, whatever.
Last edited: