What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

peebee said:

That's strange, just bought miself a 450 Royal Enfield Guerrilla last week just got to run it in now. Wonder if there is any collaboration between the two manufacturers on engine design.

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Nice, I like the look of them. How is it? ( perhaps reply in the Royal Enfield section).

In the luxury market where something is made matters, and companies know it. Hence Bentley and RR are still built in England rather than in Germany etc. Triumph moved production out of the UK, but I don't consider Triumph to be a luxury brand, where as Norton want to be.

Bevelheadmhr said:

In the luxury market where something is made matters, and companies know it. Hence Bentley and RR are still built in England rather than in Germany etc. Triumph moved production out of the UK, but I don't consider Triumph to be a luxury brand, where as Norton want to be.

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100%! If Norton wanted to fail, they’d build up the hype of re-introducing an iconic ‘British’ brand, build a factory in Norton heartland (staffing it with British workers), tell the world they’re gonna build British bikes there (with an 8k capacity), aiming high end bikes at (potentially) high end prices - and then immediately ship production to India. Providing premium bikes at premium prices from an Indian factory, straight off the bat? Very unlikely I think.

They’ve told us what they’re gonna do. Commercial suicide to do the opposite, at least initially. Who knows in future, if/when volumes increase. Sure they’re gonna make the most out of Honsur - initially with the smaller capacity model(s) that they will likely hope add some volume to sales. Who knows where the division of production will be in future.

That’s my ‘speculation’ only and that’s all we’ve got really. As Bh says though - not long to wait now! My guess if there’s nothing new at the NEC (by way of pre-production) there may well be more detail to emerge from it.

Stephen_Spencer said:

100%! If Norton wanted to fail, they’d build up the hype of re-introducing an iconic ‘British’ brand, build a factory in Norton heartland (staffing it with British workers), tell the world they’re gonna build British bikes there (with an 8k capacity), aiming high end bikes at (potentially) high end prices - and then immediately ship production to India. Providing premium bikes at premium prices from an Indian factory, straight off the bat? Very unlikely I think.

They’ve told us what they’re gonna do. Commercial suicide to do the opposite, at least initially. Who knows in future, if/when volumes increase. Sure they’re gonna make the most out of Honsur - initially with the smaller capacity model(s) that they will likely hope add some volume to sales. Who knows where the division of production will be in future.

That’s my ‘speculation’ only and that’s all we’ve got really. As Bh says though - not long to wait now! My guess if there’s nothing new at the NEC (by way of pre-production) there may well be more detail to emerge from it.

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My 2 cents.

I anticipate that Norton will eventually produce a solid, desirable motorcycle, but likely not at the super-premium level some might expect. Instead, Norton seems poised to target a more accessible range—something comparable to Royal Enfield or the GS350 Apache lineup. Larger bikes over 600cc can be a challenging sell in many markets, especially where consumers are smaller in stature or highly price-sensitive.

The Norton 961 feels like a strategic placeholder, likely continued to secure that UK government funding. It hasn’t seen robust sales, and with the factory’s capacity to scale up production, it seems impractical as a core model for the brand.

Given that Norton is now owned by TVS Motor Company, we know they are using the brand to leverage TVS’s established manufacturing expertise, distribution channels, and market insights. TVS is exploring mid-size bikes under the Norton name that appeal to a broader audience while preserving the brand’s heritage appeal. This approach could allow Norton to tap into a wider market while ensuring long-term viability.

I should add that the electrification of the brand is still what I think you will see produced in England as well

Itl be interesting seeing what they bring out single wise to try take on Enfield if they are playing in that end of the market. I’ve been following the thread with interest

Being an ex Himalayan owner I can chime in on the competition a bit

They really were onto something with the 411 analogue clocks screw n locknut valves easy to service apart from the build quality issues and distribution issues when I had mine with spares I ended up rejecting for a full refund at 500 miles with multiple replacement part failures Took it out on some wild weather though


I was a bit gutted when they went high tech with the new 450 Himalayan what I found interesting with Re was when I wandered onto the stand at motorcycle live last year they were insanely interested in what I had to say even though it wasn’t maybe what they wanted to hear and a totally different take on the tech they had done.

I know it wasn’t just me that was gutted they ditched the 411 lots just wanted a bit more power but the simplicity as they handled on rails.

even when I mentioned spare parts issues I’d faced and when I questioned part prices some dealers were asking on new parts for older models ie an exhaust that was 1/4 of the cost of the entire bike they took it very seriously which was refreshing. Being prepared to listen to customer feedback especially those who had a bad experience is everything as it makes you wanna get another one again. They seemed to really care an introduced me to a few people even though I’m not a famous blogger or anything like that really impressed me.

I’ve also had the smaller capacity Ktm’s and Hondas 300 rally and currently the 500nx which dad is using and all the larger adv BMWs an currently have the 1150gsa as well as my Nortons an 1927 flat tanker.

If you look at the range RE had at the last motorcycle live it was interesting

A Bullet 350


Prototype electric adventure bike on show well ahead



then Triumph with the 400 singles.



The ktms always have the performance but the insurance costs and reliability issues to match, for younger riders younger than me that can be really tough, I hope Norton dont ignore security systems on the bike.

I can actually insure a larger capacity bmw for a fraction of a small capacity Ktm



I think what RE are really good at is marketing they show motorcycles well ahead to show the vision amazing concept bikes like the electric Himalayan and the girder fork v twins they did a few years back that was interesting in the flesh.

The video aspect as well means a lot of people my age and under you could cut in half n it’d say Enfield heck I still wear all my RE tops an constantly look at old 50s bullets and modern Enfields if they ever bring a 500 old school single out again Oo la la!

I think the sub 500 class is probably the most important especially for getting younger riders into the brand, this is important no younger riders or understanding of what younger riders want like RE seem to have gained a deep understanding off compared to the others in that class an itl fall flat on its face.

Lots like seeing the concept bikes and teasers talking about the dream the idea the thing that moves and stirs your soul.

It’s an iconic trademark so hopefully they don’t screw it up I did message at the time when they got going although I got no reply saying they should get a 500 single out along with some other smaller Cc stuff so who knows maybe the email ended up in the right hands or they were thinking along the same lines.

N back when I was debating the finer points of the issue with my old blog on my Nortons I did mention it to John at that point again. Not to ignore the smaller stuff from the perspective of a younger rider. At that time I was going through a bit of a breakdown so was a bit of a rough few months.

I find it interesting that I would love Norton to do something wild an outlandish like a rotary but then I am one of the few in my 30s that rides a 97 year old motorcycle in the depths of October lol.

Although not the only one I might add

I think competition improves the breed an Norton back in the 20s always had affordable models to a point although for the expert rider so I think if they do that itl certainly get my respect a bit.

Then with a range of high end British built bikes the aspiration aspect is there within the marque, I came close to being a 961 owner a few times myself. Loved the idea of a sport. If I was to add up the expenditure on other bikes of what I’ve had since I initially nearly got one I could have got 3 in that time frame so somethings been a misfire to not get someone like myself who already had a passion for the brand to part with my money and is in the younger demographic.

That’s not to say we don’t like our premium stuff I might get a vanquish in the next few years because I do believe in supporting British industry yet at the same time I also believe it’s intrinsic to the Brand to have affordable stuff to especially in the current economy

If they don’t get younger riders passing the tests and onto smaller bikes there’s gonna be no industry left for modern bikes looking at how many dealers are shutting.

It’s gotta be said the mental health benefit is amazing.

If they show anything at motorcycle live I might book to go as I wanna check out the latest Enfields a few are catching my attention.

A long reply but just a few thoughts

Wonder if we will ever see a new version of these

AMCN article posted by Ian on the FB site. Nothing new really, but interesting to hear from the big Indian cheese himself. Doesn’t sound like ‘smoke and mirrors’ to me. Talk of Honsur and volumes, as we suspected.

Stephen_Spencer said:

AMCN article posted by Ian on the FB site. Nothing new really, but interesting to hear from the big Indian cheese himself. Doesn’t sound like ‘smoke and mirrors’ to me. Talk of Honsur and volumes, as we suspected.

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Please sum up the article for those who can't read tiny print!! Thanks Stephen

A difficult time to be entering the market with a new range of bikes!?

It appears that KTM may be in trouble. Potentially to be bailed out by another big Indian manufacturer (Bajaj).

KTM would sell a lot more bikes if they actually employed a few stylists…

Fast Eddie said:

KTM would sell a lot more bikes if they actually employed a few stylists…

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From a person who owns one I agree.

MAK said:

From a person who owns one I agree.

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And quit selling at such high prices. Some of the dirt and enduro products are over priceds

The problem at KTM are mainly due to their bicycle division. Demand went through the roof during covid, and KTM rammed up production assuming the good times were here to stay. Once everyone went back to work, demand collapsed, leaving KTM with huge losses. Of course their response to the camshaft issue hasn't helped bike sales.. caused by incorrect machining of the oil galleries feeding the cams, leading to oil starvation of the cams.

Fast Eddie said:

KTM would sell a lot more bikes if they actually employed a few stylists…

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Dunno about that.
Kids like the bright orange colors, angular plastic bits, and insect-like styling.
That is their market segment after all.

The problem may be that Millennials, and Gen Zers just are not buying motorcycles and sports cars like Baby Boomers have.
They seem particularly susceptible to the global Green Agenda, and prefer electric scooters, bicycles, and the such.
I think all manufacturers can see this problem looming ahead for them as well.

Bevelheadmhr said:

The problem at KTM are mainly due to their bicycle division. Demand went through the roof during covid, and KTM rammed up production assuming the good times were here to stay. Once everyone went back to work, demand collapsed, leaving KTM with huge losses. Of course their response to the camshaft issue hasn't helped bike sales.. caused by incorrect machining of the oil galleries feeding the cams, leading to oil starvation of the cams.

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Wasn't this cam wear issue only on the parallel twins ?

Reading a little further it looks like a case of business overextension, in the main. As sales ebbed and flowed in the past KTM were able to absorb the leaner periods. This downturn in sales (since 22) is occurring with the heavy debt of purchasing other brands (Gas Gas etc) present. Bailout required.

Suprised me - I guess you just don’t expect such a dominant player to fail so badly. When was the last time that happened!

TonyA said:

Wasn't this cam wear issue only on the parallel twins ?

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Yes, but it has damaged their reputation amongst buyers.

Not sure why a well considered accurate post, adding value to the discussion, would be deleted. Oh well!

A bit more detail about what is going wrong at KTM.

Another dealer for you soft southerners!

Still a bit sparse!

Honda of course, on the ball/money, nothing from norton here im aware of, yet

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