What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Stephen_Spencer said:
Yep, I guess we’ll all be a bit frustrated if they don’t show us something (prototype) this year. That said, I’m not sure we on this (echo chamber of a) site have the most balanced of views sometimes. Nor do I think we easily seperate frustrations accumulated in the Garner years from what’s happening currently.

Bottom line for me - how can we here conclude that it’s unnaceptoble that Norton has taken this long to deliver new bikes, when we don’t even know what those bikes are? The sports bike was described as “think Ducati V4’. How long does it take to develop such a machine? From concept to completion? With whatever constraints may be in play?

My guess is if it were possible to deliver them earlier then they would. They’re holding news back for a reason - who knows whether this is the right approach or not. We have no information.

The Buell comparrison doesn’t hold water Voodoo, we’ve discussed that at length. Their new machines are based heavily on previous models. Not completely new machines.
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Atlas anyone!!
 
Voodooo said:
Sure it does. The super cruiser is a brand new model designed by Roland sands and then put into production by Buell.
Since its design, they kept the public at notice.
It’s been a 2 year development, ready for purchase in 2025, and many of them are already shown, ridden across the country, test ridden and used as stunt bikes.

The only shared part is the engine. They already displayed everything made in the USA and where in the USA it’s made at.
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Good discussion points Voodooo, but you’re still not ‘comparing apples’, and your facts may be a bit skewed🤣!

If we’re talking time taken to introduce an ‘all new’ machine, it will be well over three years since Buell ‘out-sourced’ the ‘design’ of the Super Cruiser to Sands, before the public can get their hands on one (best guess - they’re still only taking orders for the tail end of 25ish). That timeframe includes the fact that almost all of its major assemblies/components are existing Buell items (not just the engine).

As for keeping the public informed; again not really apples. Situations are different between Buell and Norton in almost every respect. Apples and Aardvarks ya might say;)!

We all wish that we had more detail mate, but Norton has chosen not to disclose until they are ready to do so. Only time will tell whether that proves to be a sound tactic or not. One thing’s for certain though, they’re the only ones with all of the facts.

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Buell buy in their engine from BRP Rotax, they use a simple and rather ugly steel frame, styling loosely based on an FXR. The only unique thing about it is the perimeter brake, an odd design from decades ago which nobody else has ever copied.. if its superior it wouldn't be unique. If Norton followed the same route in 2020, it wouldn't take long to launch a few bikes using bought in engines.. Aprilia perhaps. Designing and manufacturing your own engine is much much more time consuming and expensive.
 
Voodooo said:
Stephen. Wake up.
Have you even followed the super cruiser? Apparently not. Not sure why you’re comparing the hammerhead to the super cruiser. Not even remotely the same bike in any form.

The super cruiser has a brand new frame design, body work, suspension, wheels, brakes, etc.
in fact it’s not using the single disc front brake, not the same suspension or frame. Sands made the prototype, since then, it’s been changed and just went through its 3rd version. 475 pounds.
175+ hp
Ran the 1/4 mile in the 9.90s

So let’s see anything TVS Norton’s done in the last 4 years. All I hear is crickets. Not a single word or picture of anything. TVS Nortons used the same 961 and v4 from garner. What’s your point of the buell using the same engine? It’s 175-185hp. Not good enough? It’s also American produced.

In the meantime buell also said in 2021 it would be offering 10 new models. So yes I agree it’s not apples to apples because Norton hasn’t proven or shown anything.

Do yourself a favor, do some YouTube research
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Just a discussion Voodooo. This recent review is worth a read ref commonality of parts.

www.cycleworld.com

2025 Buell Super Cruiser First Ride

We ride Buell’s preproduction Super Cruiser. Despite a few rough edges and cruiser-style compromises, the 175-hp machine is a wicked fast and fun ride.
www.cycleworld.com www.cycleworld.com
 
Voodooo said:
Stephen again. You’re embarrassing yourself. Always thinking you know everything. Like I said, buell has been keeping its followers in the loop with up to date information. As I said, they announced they will not be using the single perimeter rotor. They also modified the frame and made other changes since that article you posted from September. Keep going.
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Happy to keep going with a ‘discussion’.
 
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Voodooo said:
There isn’t anything else to discuss. It just turns into back and forth nonsense. You see Norton as the all mighty and purposeful plan and that’s the final.

I simply state that two companies whom both have modern day ups and downs as a business, Norton and Buell.
Both with new ownership and nearly identical start up times, and how one shares their products and progress with the media and public and how the other refuses to do so.

All you want to do is argue facts and can’t admit ever being wrong about anything and you’ll defend TVS to your grave.
Even when I shown you facts of the progress of buell and their products, to try to talk like you know what is but can’t accept them.
Sure! The super cruiser has a shared motor from the past. That’s a bad thing?
They actually have bikes available, and the newest model is available soon.
$120 million in pre orders. That says a lot.
Especially for just one model of bike (super cruiser)
By the way, it wasn’t a 3 year building process.

Buell keeps sharing the final details and slight changes of the cruiser as it goes into final production. Are their bikes style for everyone? Absolutely not! Nor are any other brands. Where is TVS?
You alway take my criticism of TVS as negative.
As slimy as Garner was / is, at least he made known what was soon to come or was in the works. He and Donington staff also kept Norton lovers excited for new and promising models.

I’m sorry that my excitement of Norton is not that of yours anymore, perhaps it will someday again when we actually see proof and progress instead of just cheap words and talk.
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With respect Scott, the ‘back and forth’ you mention ‘is’ the discussion - this being a ‘discussion’ forum. That’s not what you are doing here.
 
Voodooo said:
Not what I’m doing? Explain

Why is it that anytime we try to communicate, it’s like we don’t speak the same language.
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You have some valid points to make. The discussion is worth progressing. You opt instead to escalate to argument (with vitriol). Discussion ends.

It amuses some. Otherwise, it’s just destructive.
 
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Voodooo said:
Stephen, a few comments back I clearly made the point of 2 motorcycle brands, both of whom have near identical start up dates.
One is talking about releasing new models, the other has shown new models and is going to production as we write this.
With demo models to actually ride and have been ridden across the country.

You argue the point of them not being apples to apples.
Agreed. Buell is already and has been posting and sharing this information with a real, ready to ride model.
Norton has not done any of this.
You claim that the buell engine is from the past and other current models. Ok and?
Because they use a current engine and swing arm from other models? Nothing else is shared from other models.
What is Norton using?

Instead you take my comments and tell me I’m wrong and say it’s been over 3 years, it hasn’t.
You tell me I’m being argumentative and “vitriol”
I’ve been following the super cruiser from day one.
From prototype to now. You pull up some out dated news that’s already changed as time to production models become final.

You take my “opinions” as arguments.
You don’t think you’re being argumentative? Really?
When I try to show you facts, you come back with insults.

Norton and buell have most definitely had different ways of showing what they have to offer. I’m not wrong about that. That’s a fact.

Even if Norton has new bikes on display at the show next month, they won’t have them ready for purchase or public testing. Watch and tell me I’m being argumentative and vitriol again.
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Happy to respond via PM.

Nobody else is interested.
 
From what I can see there appear to be no intentions to unveil a bike, at the Cologne show, the NEC or the EICMA Show as Norton looks like they will not be attending. This would indicate that they may unveil sometime in 2025 ideally in the spring ready for the summer in the northern hemisphere, but even this contradicts what was said at the NOC day in September, ''road testing with many 10's of thousands of miles has been completed so far'' if this was the case then where are the spy shots, where is this road testing being conducted I wonder, or is it just smoke and mirrors.
 
They never intended to attend Cologne or EICMA. The list of exhibitors on the NEC live website include Norton (See link below). Any bikes shown may be preproduction models, but the first new models were also due to be launched to the public in the Spring of 2025.

www.motorcyclelive.co.uk

Exhibitors | Motorcycle Live 2025

The UK's largest motorcycle show!
www.motorcyclelive.co.uk www.motorcyclelive.co.uk
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
They never intended to attend Cologne or EICMA. The list of exhibitors on the NEC live website include Norton (See link below). Any bikes shown may be preproduction models, but the first new models were also due to be launched to the public in the Spring of 2025.

www.motorcyclelive.co.uk

Exhibitors | Motorcycle Live 2025

The UK's largest motorcycle show!
www.motorcyclelive.co.uk www.motorcyclelive.co.uk
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Maybe so, but launched to the public? does that mean the public can then buy them, or buy them 6 -10 months further down the line. My post is about what they say publicly, and timescales. They claim they are looking to expand into Europe and the USA, if that is the case then the Cologne show and EICMA are the places to unveil the bikes. Despite us little englanders being the centre of the motorcycle world, like it or not, the NEC show is not a world renowned show in the motorcycle world.
From recent experience, I know that the teams in Solihull and India are fully aware that what they produce has to be both a motorcycle and Norton, anyone can build a motorcycle TVS do that with their eyes shut every day, a Norton needs to be special. Marinating that special Norton ingredient is the hard part, but I'll be looking forward to what will be made as they seemed to have a good idea of what they need to build and who they need to sell to.
The past years seem to have been hard for them, they knew what they needed to build, but sourcing team members with the right skills, mindset and willingness to produce their vision seems to have been the challenging part.
 
I was told by my AD to expect sales to start in the Spring of 2025, whether that's March, April or May I don't know, but they also said there should be 'pre production' models to view at the showroom before then. While EICMA is the appropriate show, I would give Norton some slack given they are a new iteration of an iconic English company , so launching their first brand new bikes in the UK sounds ok to me. When their full model range has been launched or about to be launched, then I would expect to see Norton at Eicma, probably next year. Either way, not much more time to wait..
 
The 450 singles will be built by TVS in India, the 'big' high end bikes will be built in Solihull (the current plant has a capacity of 7000 bikes per year). The middle weight bikes could be either.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
The 450 singles will be built by TVS in India, the 'big' high end bikes will be built in Solihull (the current plant has a capacity of 7000 bikes per year). The middle weight bikes could be either.
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Wages India v Wages UK.
 
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