What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Stephen_Spencer said:
OK FE - nothing positive happening with 961 sales! Check ✔️🤣

Maybe we should make the comparison point for 961 current sales, against the number some on this forum declared in the past that Norton would sell!! Now you’ve gotta admit that makes things look just a tad rosier!😁
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I think I’ve already said, 961 sales do look better, which is great. And I hope Norton reflect on the volume / price relationship.
 
The new Sports bike range is to be priced between £20 and £40K, a lot, but comparable to the Ducati V4s. I was surprised that Norton went to the trouble and expense of redesigning the V4 to sell only into the UK, given the small volumes. Though I have read that TVS originally intended to modify both the 961 and V4 to meet Euro 6 standards. But alas they soon found that would be impossible without major changes.. the 961 would need a new, much bigger airbox for example. However, the V4 could be made to meet the Euro 6 standards when housed in a new frame, so I wonder if the new sports bike range will use this updated V4 in a frame which would be cheaper when made in higher volumes?

The small bikes will be built in India, no surprise, which leaves the middle weight range.. maybe the new Commando... to compete with the Triumph twins etc.

The current bikes are built with small batch production, maybe ten 961s, followed by 10 V4s as required, all made to order it seems. The Trans Atlantic special edition I saw last week was sold, and they said they had sold a few this summer, when they came available. Though the Yellow version hadn't sold any yet. That Trans Atlantic had a frame number in the mid 500s, while my bike is low 300's bought in June this year. Therefore its fair to assume that at least 500 have already been made, not bad as I've read on here that in the ten years of the previous era, only between 1000 and 2000 bikes were built. The MD has stated that in 2023 they made around 260 bikes, and he expected to make a few more than that in 2024, before the new range arrives. So they are on target if not exceeding it.

As for the buyers, well lets say they are mature riders lol. Not many young riders buying 961s or V4s. Many V4s are bought as Garage Art or as investments by the wealthy enthusiast, while the 961s seem to be bought to ride. Maybe only as sunny Sunday only bikes, but that's ok, a lot of top end bikes are only ridden in good weather, not many miles being clocked up each year. So when they appear for sale, its no surprise many have very low milage. From the updates on my dealers FB page most buyers are in their 60's or older.

Finally, I recently spoke to a chap whose son works for Norton, no new information, but he did say his son is very positive about the company and is enjoying his job.
 
peebee said:
Voodoo, I love reading your ramblings they sometimes make I larf , just wonder if it's just Norton you are down on or is it every thing else in this crazy world. I heard on the grapevine that the only difference between you and a battery is that a battery has a positive side. 🤣 🤣 🤣
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Just TVS Norton.

My friends say I’m a pretty good guy and funny. But here on the interweb in the land of make believe, fakes and lies, I get fed up with false promises and fake information.
I’m not saying Norton is fake, or lying.
I’m a “show me” kinda guy. I’ll believe it when I see it.

I wasn’t always this way towards Norton. I mean I did buy and still own two 961’s. It’s the run around and bullshit I’ve dealt with back and forth with TVS Norton that’s left me sour.

Remember when Norton Emailed me directly saying that the then……oh I can’t remember his name now, maybe it was John somebody?

When he said how important it was to hear and help current and future owners of Norton, he then became a member of this forum and introduced himself here. That didn’t get far or last.

As I said, I’ll believe Norton when I see it as a reality.
Like a battery, after the excitement of a charge, it does go dead when not used or sitting. Every 961 owner knows that.
 
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peebee said:
Voodoo, I love reading your ramblings they sometimes make I larf , just wonder if it's just Norton you are down on or is it every thing else in this crazy world. I heard on the grapevine that the only difference between you and a battery is that a battery has a positive side. 🤣 🤣 🤣
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Great line.:D
Voodoo is just expressing verbally what all long suffering Donny 961 owners fell.
Dr. Bob needs to do the right thing for us, and soon.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
OK FE - nothing positive happening with 961 sales! Check ✔️🤣

Maybe we should make the comparison point for 961 current sales, against the number some on this forum declared in the past that Norton would sell!! Now you’ve gotta admit that makes things look just a tad rosier!😁
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Selling 50 961 bikes from an established brand over a 3-4 year period doesn’t seem like anything to brag about. Just saying.
 
Voodooo said:
Who ever said modern Ducatis were made in Italy?
Ducati is owed by Lamborghini, who is owed by Audi who is owned by Volkswagen.
What point are you trying to make? That Ducatis are made in Germany?

I can tell you that the 3 new Ducatis I own don’t say made in India any where on them. And 2 of them I had stripped down and many of the parts are made in Italy or Germany.

How many of the parts do you think the TVS Norton will say made in England or India on them?
We already know many of it is made in China.
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Taiwan, and those are the reliable parts 🤣
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
That's 50 bikes from one dealer who only got the brand late last year. Just saying..
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I know what you meant.
And I’m saying that’s not anything to brag about because this is probably / most likely, their best selling dealer.

TVS didn’t design or engineer the 961, they took an existing bike and made “some” improvements to it. They also didn’t have to advertise the model, it’s been a known brand and model for over a decade.
 

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74ok said:

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Massive sales, Yes, Shockingly good? - not so it seems, with some being repaired under warranty with less than 900 miles on them. With 50,000 sold which is no shock as global pre orders were massive, I'm sure any further issues will soon bubble to the top and be quickly remedied.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
C’mon boys, you can do it - put those axes down and let the sparks settle for a bit!🤣

We’ve just heard from BevelHead info that he got from his dealer:

- The 961 has started to sell well - the dealers have asked them to retain production.
- Despite a couple of anomalies, reliability looks great so far. 50 961’s out from one dealer - one minor return only. Positive reports all over the internet.
- Sighting of pre production models by dealer. Sports bikes on the way - ‘think Ducati V4’ was the quote.
- 450 for the Asian market. Should help provide some real volume and point Norton towards profit.
- Adv on the way, to tap into that burgeoning market.
- High profile CEO hired to implement overseas market.
- NEC around the corner.

Gotta be something at least a little optimistic to discuss there right? Or, as we’ve done, we could go straight back to:

Norton

- hasn’t advertised new models.
- spares availability is poor.
- is too slow.
- treated us badly.
- isn’t British or iconic anyway.

Do we really think ‘It is …. folly to even try to put a positive spin on …”.

Surely we’re not where our vintage friend says we are? Tell me it ain’t so!?✋😢🤚
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For once I agree, though what was promised and what gets manufactured in the future might not be what us owners would expect or have been lead to believe from past media releases from Solihull. With the announcement of bikes being built in India and the UK, it seems someone has seen the light, this will average out cost of build and enable more margin per unit. Thankfully it seems the high end, premium, boutique attitude has been kicked into touch and rightly so, and replaced with good looking, sensibly priced and reliable machines.
The 450 will be interesting, a hard market place at the moment with many options and all seem pretty at what they do.
A dealer will never put a true figure on what they have sold, if the figures they quote are correct with 8 UK retailers then that is a massive amount of sales if they are all selling 50 bikes, even the top makes would be proud of figures like that for a single model. I also don't see those 50 bikes being used on the roads here in the UK.
 
Madnorton said:
For once I agree, though what was promised and what gets manufactured in the future might not be what us owners would expect or have been lead to believe from past media releases from Solihull. With the announcement of bikes being built in India and the UK, it seems someone has seen the light, this will average out cost of build and enable more margin per unit. Thankfully it seems the high end, premium, boutique attitude has been kicked into touch and rightly so, and replaced with good looking, sensibly priced and reliable machines.
The 450 will be interesting, a hard market place at the moment with many options and all seem pretty at what they do.
A dealer will never put a true figure on what they have sold, if the figures they quote are correct with 8 UK retailers then that is a massive amount of sales if they are all selling 50 bikes, even the top makes would be proud of figures like that for a single model. I also don't see those 50 bikes being used on the roads here in the UK.
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Steady on Mn, don’t get too carried away!! Not sure we’re on the same page quite yet🤣!

I think the very reason Norton has been keeping shtum about models until they are ready is so as not fall into the trap that you describe. And we’ve criticised them for it, whilst everybody speculates on snippets. Are we now criticising them for potentially not delivering the models that they have’nt really told us about? 😄 Harsh mate!

No bolts of light either Mn, we’ve been speculating for a long time that smaller/commuter type bikes will likely be manufactured out of Honsur for the Asian market - and beyond eventually I guess. Norton has just confirmed this.

Premium approach ‘kicked into touch’? That’s not the case either I’d guess - they will likely continue down this route for the western market, whether we think it’s a good idea or not.

Not quite entente cordiale Mn, but that’s OK👍
 
kev said:
I'll be the guy floating between the Ducati stand and the Norton stand planning my divorce.....
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The difference is, one you can buy now, the other you can only talk about maybe someday buying. The Norton will save your marriage, the mistress in red will cause the divorce. Pick wisely.
 
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