Turn signals deleted?

concours said:

Form
Follows
Function




Sleek?




Hand signal for a right turn, to a youngster is just "he's waiving to a friend"



Conspicuity is paramount to motorcyclist survival.


Most sleek/smaller/tucked in turn signals that barely meet legal criteria are safetywise a joke, and look cheesy.


Ford Explorer rear turn signals nestled in a horseshoe shaped stop light are a good example of how NOT to do it.
The separation of signal lights was long ago determined to be visually most conspicuous. Yet, the styling weenies are occasionally allowed to do stupid shit.

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One of my mates has a 2023 BMW R1250GS. They no longer have a dedicated tail or brake light. It's all in the rear indicators. You can't tell he's indicating when his brake lights go on. Dreadful design.

Mart UK said:

One of my mates has a 2023 BMW R1250GS. They no longer have a dedicated tail or brake light. It's all in the rear indicators. You can't tell he's indicating when his brake lights go on. Dreadful design.

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Yes , I'm also out , with BMW weird new ideas .

quawk said:

Have went to the Paul Goff website and looked at his products. They look interesting and seem reasonably priced for an improved product. I'd imagine all of us still using the old style incandescent bulbs ought to consider upgrading to modern, brighter lighting. I've got no problem ordering from the U.K. but just wondering if there is a vendor here in the U.S. offering the same or similar LED upgrade lighting products. Having just recently gotten my project bike to the point of being able to ride it, haven't been too concerned with its' not so great lighting, but will be seriously considering upgrading to modern LED replacement lighting.

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When it's all said and done, LED is the way to go. Hand signals, 90% of drivers don't even know what they are. The bottom line is you should drive your motorcycle like everyone is out to kill you!

quawk said:

Have went to the Paul Goff website and looked at his products. They look interesting and seem reasonably priced for an improved product. I'd imagine all of us still using the old style incandescent bulbs ought to consider upgrading to modern, brighter lighting. I've got no problem ordering from the U.K. but just wondering if there is a vendor here in the U.S. offering the same or similar LED upgrade lighting products. Having just recently gotten my project bike to the point of being able to ride it, haven't been too concerned with its' not so great lighting, but will be seriously considering upgrading to modern LED replacement lighting.

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Quawk,
You can look at British Cycle Supply and Commando Specialties.Also Greg Marsh can set you up with LED bulbs with the proper flasher unit.Anything you need from Paul Goff doesn’t take long to get to you.Myself I like the way the LED bulbs work as they are much brighter and easier on your charging system.Just my personal opinion.
Mike

Try this UK outlet,,,,,, Alchemy parts , in particular "SKU 5196" I have a set and they are very good, I had to cobble a bracket up for the rear on my machine but they are led and bright ,,,,,,

As I posted previously, have checked out the Paul Goff website, and on his site one of his replacement LED bulbs say it replaces existing British pre-focus or BPF bulbs. Can I ask, what does the pre focus bulb mean or refer to?

quawk said:

Can I ask, what does the pre focus bulb mean or refer to?

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The original type headlamp bulb.

Since this thread is discussing various lighting topics on the Nortons, the one original Hi-Rider feature I haven't swapped out yet is the smaller diameter headlamp. I believe the other models have a 7" headlamp and mine is like 5" or 5 1/2". Is there any real advantage as far as lighting output with the larger headlamp? I would assume it might be, at least slightly better, correct?

quawk said:

Since this thread is discussing various lighting topics on the Nortons, the one original Hi-Rider feature I haven't swapped out yet is the smaller diameter headlamp. I believe the other models have a 7" headlamp and mine is like 5" or 5 1/2". Is there any real advantage as far as lighting output with the larger headlamp? I would assume it might be, at least slightly better, correct?

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I swapped my HiRider lamp to the roadster 7"...mainly for looks as the saying goes, "A gentleman does not ride at night."
Another unexpected advantage, the three warning lamps on shell are in a better position to be seen from my normal riding position.

One thing to be aware of, using LED's all round may actually impose greater loading on the Zener diode voltage regulator...since it will need to shunt to earth more unused power oit the alternator. Mine packed and died within a few months of fitting led headlight, tail/brake lights. First symptom was a hard to start bike after a fuel stop...found turn lamps (still incandescents) weak to flash and horn non operative. Then found battery bloated from over charging.

Moved to a Trispark reg/rec setup and all had been great.

Note using led turns needs a proper flasher unit, a tweaker circuit on the warning lamp or an led warning lamp (polarity insensitive).

I make my own LED indicator bulbs from G4 Led bulbs and G4 bulb connector wires from ebay and blown indicator bayonet caps.


Bulbs are polarity insensitive, first ones i made back in 2015 are still working fine

Tornado said:

Moved to a Trispark reg/rec setup and all had been great.

Note using led turns needs a proper flasher unit, a tweaker circuit on the warning lamp or an led warning lamp (polarity insensitive).

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So, to be clear, after switching to the Trispark reg/rec you can use the LED headlight and tail/brake lights and will continue to work/charge properly? I have researched and realize I'd need a flasher designed for the turn signal LEDs but what's purpose is the tweaker circuit both you and a previous responder mentioned? And if you run an LED warning lamp, you don't need the tweaker circuit? Don't mean to sound dense here, but I will probably, at some point switching to upgraded LED lighting.

quawk said:

So, to be clear, after switching to the Trispark reg/rec you can use the LED headlight and tail/brake lights and will continue to work/charge properly? I have researched and realize I'd need a flasher designed for the turn signal LEDs but what's purpose is the tweaker circuit both you and a previous responder mentioned? And if you run an LED warning lamp, you don't need the tweaker circuit? Don't mean to sound dense here, but I will probably, at some point switching to upgraded LED lighting.

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With a modern Reg/Rec unit like the Trispark, voltage is maintained and handled better than the poor old Zener can handle if not using the higher wattage original bulbs. Maybe mine was faulty and just coincidentally died months after going to led headlamp/tail/brake. The positive earth zener's are pretty much unobtanium as replacements these days, so no real choice to swap it like for like.

I think I'm wrong about an LED warning lamp as an alternative to tweaker....sorry.

The turn warning bulb is a single bulb on our bikes, which passes current thru when either left or right turn switch is closed. With LED bulbs in the corner lamps, the warning lamp draws more current than the turn led's and so stays lit, not flashing like it should and both left/right lights flash together. The tweaker is a couple of diodes placed on the connections from the left/right switch circuit....so current can only flow through the warning lamp one direction at a time.



Another option I came across but have not tried, is a special 3-pin LED flasher unit with a 4th pigtail that can control the warning directly....available for both +ve and -ve earth use:

Tornado said:

With a modern Reg/Rec unit like the Trispark, voltage is maintained and handled better than the poor old Zener can handle if not using the higher wattage original bulbs. Maybe mine was faulty and just coincidentally died months after going to led headlamp/tail/brake. The positive earth zener's are pretty much unobtanium as replacements these days, so no real choice to swap it like for like.

I think I'm wrong about an LED warning lamp as an alternative to tweaker....sorry.

The turn warning bulb is a single bulb on our bikes, which passes current thru when either left or right turn switch is closed. With LED bulbs in the corner lamps, the warning lamp draws more current than the turn led's and so stays lit, not flashing like it should and both left/right lights flash together. The tweaker is a couple of diodes placed on the connections from the left/right switch circuit....so current can only flow through the warning lamp one direction at a time.

View attachment 117059

Another option I came across but have not tried, is a special 3-pin LED flasher unit with a 4th pigtail that can control the warning directly....available for both +ve and -ve earth use:

12V ELECTRONIC INDICATOR FLASHER / HAZARD RELAY CLASSIC CAR CLICKING

For Classic & Modern Cars & Motorcycles. 12 Volt 2 / 3 pin electronic indicator / hazards. Keeps flash rate constant for LED & Filament Bulbs. 64461334211, 644.613.342.11 Negative earth 502096. Positive earth

www.classiccarleds.co.uk

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Tornado, thanks so much for the very understandable explaination of the tweaker circuit and why it's needed.

When you start switching to LEDs you reduce the overall current needed by the bike and therefore increase the need for whatever rectifier/regulator you have to get rid of the excess. If you also think bigger/more is better and install a stator capable of higher output, you are making things even worse - especially if your regulator is a Zener.

A Norton/Triumph/BSA that left the factory with a 2-wire, 10amp stator needs no more unless you have a bunch of accessories like heated gloves and/or vests and it will keep the battery charged with all the standard incandescent lights.

A 3-wire (3-phase) stator will charge better at low RPMs than a 2-wire, and a Tri-Spark MOSFET regulator will charge better than a bridge/Zener. But, IMHO, the reason to use them is to reduce complexity and in the case of trouble, make it much easier for those knowing little about electrical systems to troubleshoot.

When I build bikes, I install the Lucas 10.5amp, 3-phase stator and the Tri-Spark MOSFET Regulator. When people want to buy high output 2- or 3-wire stators from me I push them hard to buy standard output. I usually install a LED headlight bulb and a LED taillight bulb for reliability. I also install LED instrument lights and a LED pilot light as they are brighter. Unless pushed by the buyer, the turn signals and turn signal warning light stay incandescent. It's easy enough to use LEDs but I can't justify the cost.

marshg246 said:

When you start switching to LEDs you reduce the overall current needed by the bike and therefore increase the need for whatever rectifier/regulator you have to get rid of the excess. If you also think bigger/more is better and install a stator capable of higher output, you are making things even worse - especially if your regulator is a Zener.

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Would you agree with Tornado that using LEDs may hasten the demise of the original Zener regulator because of it needing to pass additional current to ground because of the LEDs using less power/current/watts than the original incandescents?

quawk said:

Have went to the Paul Goff website and looked at his products. They look interesting and seem reasonably priced for an improved product. I'd imagine all of us still using the old style incandescent bulbs ought to consider upgrading to modern, brighter lighting. I've got no problem ordering from the U.K. but just wondering if there is a vendor here in the U.S. offering the same or similar LED upgrade lighting products. Having just recently gotten my project bike to the point of being able to ride it, haven't been too concerned with its' not so great lighting, but will be seriously considering upgrading to modern LED replacement lighting.

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I agree that LED lighting is superior but I seldom if ever ride at
night . I have kept my incandescent bulbs as they draw more
current and I have installed a Podtronics shunt type regulator.
Some claim that there is a chance of damaging the alternator windings with a shunt regulator when it sheds excess voltage .

Richard Tool said:

I agree that LED lighting is superior but I seldom if ever ride at
night . I have kept my incandescent bulbs as they draw more
current and I have installed a Podtronics shunt type regulator.
Some claim that there is a chance of damaging the alternator windings with a shunt regulator when it sheds excess voltage .

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I also seldom ride at night, but, I think having brighter lighting may even help being seen during day riding even if just slightly. I think any degree of improved visibility is a plus for safetys' sake. As one member responded in this thread, you need to ride like every other driver is out to kill you. I guess if you want to take the visibility issue to the extreme we should all be wearing the flourescent yellow jackets and pants, lighted helmets, etc. I just can't bring myself (at least so far and I'm old) to wear the dayglo outerwear.

quawk said:

I also seldom ride at night, but, I think having brighter lighting may even help being seen during day riding even if just slightly. I think any degree of improved visibility is a plus for safetys' sake. As one member responded in this thread, you need to ride like every other driver is out to kill you. I guess if you want to take the visibility issue to the extreme we should all be wearing the flourescent yellow jackets and pants, lighted helmets, etc. I just can't bring myself (at least so far and I'm old) to wear the dayglo outerwear.

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My riding is more than 70% urban, daylight. I run the LED BPF headlight for increasing my visibility to others. The OEM lamp is like a 20/40 watt glow worm by comparison.

quawk said:

I also seldom ride at night, but, I think having brighter lighting may even help being seen during day riding even if just slightly. I think any degree of improved visibility is a plus for safetys' sake. As one member responded in this thread, you need to ride like every other driver is out to kill you. I guess if you want to take the visibility issue to the extreme we should all be wearing the flourescent yellow jackets and pants, lighted helmets, etc. I just can't bring myself (at least so far and I'm old) to wear the dayglo outerwear.

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Read the Hurt report.

quawk said:

I also seldom ride at night, but, I think having brighter lighting may even help being seen during day riding even if just slightly. I think any degree of improved visibility is a plus for safetys' sake. As one member responded in this thread, you need to ride like every other driver is out to kill you. I guess if you want to take the visibility issue to the extreme we should all be wearing the flourescent yellow jackets and pants, lighted helmets, etc. I just can't bring myself (at least so far and I'm old) to wear the dayglo outerwear.

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No question that LED lighting makes you more visible - day or
night . Never was a fan of DayGlo outerwear either until two years ago . First and only ( so far ) road accident- I am 71 and have been riding motorcycles since I was 13. Teenage girl in an SUV came into my lane and took me out. As a promise to my wife and daughters I now wear hi vis vest over my leather in colder weather and bought a hi vis summer weight jacket with body armor for warmer days .