Your story sounds very similar to mine (sans the accident). We're nearly the same age, and I started riding (minibikes) at about the same age as you. When you say the girl "took you out" I assume she crashed you. That's never good, regardless of age, but as an oldster (hope you don't mind that reference) bodies break more easily and hurt for a longer period after. The good news is you're still here and able to ride. I no longer use my bike to commute to work (retired) and now most rides are shorter, leisurely ones. Still you're out there sharing the roads with others, most of whom were never riders, are preoccupied with getting to work, or the kids to school or sports practice, or, and this is a big concern, on their stupid cell phones. I've got to wonder if that was the case with the girl who took you out. Maybe not. I guess a vest may be an easy to slip on way of being more visible. Yeah, I know, more dreaded topic drift.
Turn signals deleted?
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marshg246
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Yes
Maybe beating this topic to death, but about the LED replacement headlight bulbs, I see that Andover Norton offers a replacement headlamp and you can get them with LED replacement bulbs, or the LED bulb individually. I think most members here, me included, consider them having some of the best possible replacement parts for our bikes, but,,,, looking at the Paul Goff website, the bulb AN offers looks like the bulb that PG has discontinued and is now offering a "new and improved" type bulb and explains why it's an improvement over the older style. If anyone has looked at or has experience with these different bulbs, can you weigh in here and comment on your thoughts about them. By the way, what was/is the purpose of the pilot bulb in the headlamp? Was it supposed the be an early version of the daytime running lights, or an always on headlight, even if dim?
marshg246
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The first BPF dual-polarity bulbs that came out had many problems - you can find them documented here and other places. The current Lucas bulbs work (standard 410/970 or 570/1020lm). I have no idea what Paul Goff or AN sell.
Many states and probably countries require a white light to show at the front at all times. The pilot light provides that when the lights are on but the headlight is off in the standard wiring. I think some (Canada?) have different wiring but still need the pilot light.
o0norton0o
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Back in the day my friends and I called that bulb a "daylight bulb" because the law (where I was living) required motorcycles to have an illuminated headlight. Any bulb that lit the reflector was sufficient. Whether the use of the daylight bulb was to save the actual headlight bulb from having a shorter life span because it was required to be on all the time without a daylight bulb in the headlight, is anybody's guess. I have an incandescent daylight bulb in my '70 commando with a LED headlight above it. The way I have my commando wired, I can run the engine with all my lights off (for kick starting), or with just the daylight bulb and my tail light bulb both "on" (for daytime running) or add the actual headlight to the daylight bulb and tail light. (presumably for riding at night/ or a preference for all the lights on)
I like how it's wired. I've had my stator wires droop down while I was riding and one wire got cut by the drive chain. I noticed poor charging on my ammeter, so I turned off the headlight to save electricity and spun around to get home to figure out what was wrong. I don't know if it made any difference in my making it home or not, but in theory it should....
***My Truck lights are always on by it's electrical design. I can't even warm the truck up in the driveway without the lights being on. Thankfully my lights don't shine on the neighbor's house because that would be pretty rude. It's one of those nanny state things where the government has decided that having your lights on all the time can make you safer so the manufacturers remove your ability to turn your headlights off to reduce their potential liability... at least I suppose that...
I had a near miss once going straight and a guy turned left in front of me and I did have my headlight on..... I swung around to talk to him and he said, "You were in a silver bike, with a silver helmet and a sky blue shirt coming over a rise against a blue sky, and I didn't see you until it was too late to do anything but "gun it" and get out of your way because I knew you couldn't stop." That guy saved my ass even though he technically cut me off, but when he apologized and gave that accurate description, I realized that sky blue and silver are not good colors for a motorcycle and rider
I like how it's wired. I've had my stator wires droop down while I was riding and one wire got cut by the drive chain. I noticed poor charging on my ammeter, so I turned off the headlight to save electricity and spun around to get home to figure out what was wrong. I don't know if it made any difference in my making it home or not, but in theory it should....
***My Truck lights are always on by it's electrical design. I can't even warm the truck up in the driveway without the lights being on. Thankfully my lights don't shine on the neighbor's house because that would be pretty rude. It's one of those nanny state things where the government has decided that having your lights on all the time can make you safer so the manufacturers remove your ability to turn your headlights off to reduce their potential liability... at least I suppose that...
I had a near miss once going straight and a guy turned left in front of me and I did have my headlight on..... I swung around to talk to him and he said, "You were in a silver bike, with a silver helmet and a sky blue shirt coming over a rise against a blue sky, and I didn't see you until it was too late to do anything but "gun it" and get out of your way because I knew you couldn't stop." That guy saved my ass even though he technically cut me off, but when he apologized and gave that accurate description, I realized that sky blue and silver are not good colors for a motorcycle and rider
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When did the "always on" headlight become a requirement on bikes? My old mid 80s gold wing daily rider has the "always on" headlight, and aside from switching to a halogen bulb way back when I revived it from being a sitter about 15 years ago, the headlight is always on whenever the bike is running or you even have the switch on, and that bulb has never been replaced.
marshg246
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There is no answer to that question without you specifying the state/country. I moved to Virginia in 1970, and it was the law when I arrived - other than that, I have no personal knowledge.
See this: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/ for the USA motorcycle laws - I assume it is accurate.
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quawk said:
Would you agree with Tornado that using LEDs may hasten the demise of the original Zener regulator because of it needing to pass additional current to ground because of the LEDs using less power/current/watts than the original incandescents?
I would say no. For the following simple reason. If you don't have a headlight on, which normally means no tail light on, and you are not using your turn indicators, you have no lighting load on the system. And the zener can handle that situation without a problem because it was designed to do so.
In which case, it doesn't matter if you are running LED or incandescent bulbs because the system doesn't see that load.
If you add a high output alternator, that could change the situation, but then you probably dumped the zener. And changed the question.
Would you agree with Tornado that using LEDs may hasten the demise of the original Zener regulator because of it needing to pass additional current to ground because of the LEDs using less power/current/watts than the original incandescents?
I would say no. For the following simple reason. If you don't have a headlight on, which normally means no tail light on, and you are not using your turn indicators, you have no lighting load on the system. And the zener can handle that situation without a problem because it was designed to do so.
In which case, it doesn't matter if you are running LED or incandescent bulbs because the system doesn't see that load.
If you add a high output alternator, that could change the situation, but then you probably dumped the zener. And changed the question.
Tornado
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The pilot light is also called the parking or even the side light, esp in UK. Many older cars have similar little bulbs in the reflectors. The purpose AFAIK, is for when you are stopped at side of road at night. You turn the ign switch to the park position and the tail and pilot lights stay on. Even with key removed from switch...so you can leave lights on while you go for help or whatever...safety for others on road at night to see your parked vehicle. Recall many narrow roads in england have poor or no street lighting.
The original lucas commando switch is four position with the parking position and i think allows key removal in park.
The original lucas commando switch is four position with the parking position and i think allows key removal in park.
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The yaki
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Fitted these recently. Choice of polarity. Also fitted compatible relay . Can't fault them ! Also plenty indicator sets on eBay. Roy.
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Tornado
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Yes, i cannot know for sure if my switch to LED headlight lead to the zener failure. It was 50 yrs old and could have seen much abuse in the past. I did do a voltage test after the battery bloated up, reving to 2-3k was getting high 15v to low 16v...far too much than it should...
Also norton must have worried about zener loads, as they mounted it on the big lump of alu Z-plate to dissipate heat. And the MKIII's got a second zener on the other Z-plate to deal with the extra watts from the uprated alternator.
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Tornado wrote:
The purpose AFAIK, is for when you are stopped at side of road at night. You turn the ign switch to the park position and the tail and pilot lights stay on. Even with key removed from switch...so you can leave lights on while you go for help or whatever...safety for others on road at night to see your parked vehicle.
In the UK it is still the law. Obviously they were't thinking about Norton owners with voltage sensitive Boyer ignitions........
The purpose AFAIK, is for when you are stopped at side of road at night. You turn the ign switch to the park position and the tail and pilot lights stay on. Even with key removed from switch...so you can leave lights on while you go for help or whatever...safety for others on road at night to see your parked vehicle.
In the UK it is still the law. Obviously they were't thinking about Norton owners with voltage sensitive Boyer ignitions........
Rule 249
All vehicles MUST display parking lights when parked on a road or a lay-by on a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph (48 km/h).
Tornado
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Presumably thats only in UK? Ive never seen a car at side of road/highway left abondoned with lighting on here in North America.
marshg246
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That's true in many Euopean countries as well. AFAIK, no US state has the rule.
marshg246
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Also, I think Canadian wiring is different from US wiring. The park position supplies power to the Brown/Green wire. That wire lights the taillight and instrument lights. The pilot light can be connected to Brown/Green (usual for Norton pre-MK3) or to the headlight switch. If connected to the headlight switch, it does not come on in the park position and only comes on when in the lighting position and the headlight is off.
I Germany, if I remember right, in park position there is no white light to the front and you had to park in the direction of travel so the illuminated rear turn signal could be seen for cars and the taillight for motorcycles.
I Germany, if I remember right, in park position there is no white light to the front and you had to park in the direction of travel so the illuminated rear turn signal could be seen for cars and the taillight for motorcycles.
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Here in frozen or too hot Canadaland , The law as I experienced , states an historic vehicle pre-1970 is exempt from lights on all the time .
concours
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High (Main) beam in the daytime SAVES LIVES.
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Various US states had headlight requirements before the US federal government stepped in, but in the late 1970s the feds required it. From memory that was about 1978.
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If my memory serves me right on researching this topic years ago, in Canada the requirement for turn signals on a road purpose motorcycle was implemented for motorcycles built on July 1, 1973 and later to cover the 1974 model year. Prior to that, as for my 1973 MKV 750, turn signals were a dealer installed option. The local dealer in Southern Ontario at the time listed this for $19.00 . Nortons came with the switches and wiring in place & ready to plug in the lamp assemblies if ordered. Muddying up the situation was a few year exemption for dual purpose motorcycle manufacturers (ie 1975 Bultaco Alpina ) to catch up with lighting capabilities. I would expect other countries to have their own time sensitive & current requirements. As for myself, where, when, & how I ride has led me to not install signals . Details of which would cover a pot of coffee in discussion but I encourage you to make your own informative decision.
Cheers ( ps $19.00 back in the day was over a days wages for many )
Cheers ( ps $19.00 back in the day was over a days wages for many )
