Mark III LED turn signal help

Ok, I put everything back to stock and all works correctly. That leads me to think wiring and grounds are all good?
Though connections may work with the higher load from incandescents, the LED lamps may not draw enough load to overcome dodgy connections/poor grounds. Best to try running a separate ground line to at least each of the lamp stems as a test. Also note that your new LED rated flasher should still work fine with incandescents...so you can test it while your have incandescents fitted.
 
Ok, ran a few more scenarios. LED flasher, no tweaker and LED bulbs in front, incandescents in rear with dedicated grounds. Bulbs flashed and indicator light worked. Swapped front and rear so now led's are in rear. Same results, everything works correctly. As soon as I add one more LED no more flash and the are dim again. I'll try dedicated grounds in the front also and see what happens.
 
Ok, ran a few more scenarios. LED flasher, no tweaker and LED bulbs in front, incandescents in rear with dedicated grounds. Bulbs flashed and indicator light worked. Swapped front and rear so now led's are in rear. Same results, everything works correctly. As soon as I add one more LED no more flash and the are dim again. I'll try dedicated grounds in the front also and see what happens.
Next....Dedicated grounds on all four bulb sockets. As soon as I add the third LED things go south. With 2 LEDs in the rear, 1 in right front and incandescent in left front.
Switch on right signal, it works correctly. Switch on left and all 4 bulbs light up....I'm about ready to head to the local pub!
 
Next....Dedicated grounds on all four bulb sockets. As soon as I add the third LED things go south. With 2 LEDs in the rear, 1 in right front and incandescent in left front.
Switch on right signal, it works correctly. Switch on left and all 4 bulbs light up....I'm about ready to head to the local pub!
So to be clear, you will need the tweaker in place when trying to run LED's on a bike with a single warning light (b/c this sort of warning setup passes a low current through the incandescent warning light bulb when operating...insufficient to light up the "off" side incandescent lamps, but plenty enough for the low load LEDs....so you get both right & left sides flashing. The tweaker should also work fine if all four lamps are still incandescents, just unnecessary. So correctly connect twaeker for these tests. Confirm it works with 4 incandescents first. Then try all LEDs and report back.
 
Dedicated grounds on all four bulb sockets.

What/where are the dedicated grounds connected? They should all connect to 'harness red' in preference to the frame or anything attached/bolted to the frame as harness red is ground, not the frame.


As soon as I add the third LED things go south. With 2 LEDs in the rear, 1 in right front and incandescent in left front.
Switch on right signal, it works correctly. Switch on left and all 4 bulbs light up....I'm about ready to head to the local pub!

Perhaps additional resistors could be required (the L/H incandescent bulb possibly acting as a resistor?).
https://cjx.cadage.pw/products.aspx?cname=wiring+a+resistor+for+led+lights&cid=113&ll=wwwsdr-mjkorg

So to be clear, you will need the tweaker in place when trying to run LED's on a bike with a single warning light

If, however, the problem continues with the tweaker and warning bulb disconnected then the warning bulb circuit/bulb/tweaker can't be causing the fault.
 
What/where are the dedicated grounds connected? They should all connect to 'harness red' in preference to the frame or anything attached/bolted to the frame as harness red is ground, not the frame.




Perhaps additional resistors could be required (the L/H incandescent bulb possibly acting as a resistor?).
https://cjx.cadage.pw/products.aspx?cname=wiring+a+resistor+for+led+lights&cid=113&ll=wwwsdr-mjkorg



If, however, the problem continues with the tweaker and warning bulb disconnected then the warning bulb circuit/bulb/tweaker can't be causing the fault.
Reporting back....
All incandescent bulbs, LED flasher and tweaker installed. Left signal works, right signal all four bulbs flash.
I removed the tweaker and everything flashes as it should.
 
I just found something else interesting...while troubleshooting I was checking power at the LED flasher. When I touch my test light to the output of the flasher the signals work correctly with all led bulbs LED installed. The only thing is when the ts switch is off and my test light still in contact with the output side of the flasher, the flasher still operates.
I am guessing my test light bulb is acting as a resistor?
 
I just found something else interesting...while troubleshooting I was checking power at the LED flasher. When I touch my test light to the output of the flasher the signals work correctly with all led bulbs LED installed. The only thing is when the ts switch is off and my test light still in contact with the output side of the flasher, the flasher still operates.
I am guessing my test light bulb is acting as a resistor?
The test light is providing enough current flow to ground to make the flasher trigger on and off. It is doing what the actual switch does, but with its test bulb adding in resistance. Probably would not do this with incandescent bulbs as they need a lot more current.

I think some of these led friendly flashers have terminals which are marked for power, load and sometime ground if three pronged. Are you sure you have it connect right way round? Can always try swapping connections to see if anything changes.
 
The test light is providing enough current flow to ground to make the flasher trigger on and off. It is doing what the actual switch does, but with its test bulb adding in resistance. Probably would not do this with incandescent bulbs as they need a lot more current.

I think some of these led friendly flashers have terminals which are marked for power, load and sometime ground if three pronged. Are you sure you have it connect right way round? Can always try swapping connections to see if anything changes.
Yes, I have the L terminal connected to the load side .
 
Yes, I have the L terminal connected to the load side .

However, for positive ground, the connections may need to be reversed.
(ignore the 'R' connection on the diagram)
Mark III LED turn signal help
 
The fact it seems to work correctly with 4 LEDs on the left switch side but four-way flashing on the right switch side implies a poor ground somewhere in the right side circuit and or an issue with the right side contacts within the switch itself. Again, it only takes a small resistance to have a prominent effect with the low current LEDs fitted, incandescent may well overcome such issues and work normally.
You can try by passing the stock wiring/connection points to each lamp on the right side, all the way from power side of switch to/from flasher, to the lamps. Essentially eliminate all connections between power and flasher, flasher and lamps, just to try to pin down where the fault is.
 
The fact it seems to work correctly with 4 LEDs on the left switch side but four-way flashing on the right switch side implies a poor ground somewhere in the right side circuit and or an issue with the right side contacts within the switch itself. Again, it only takes a small resistance to have a prominent effect with the low current LEDs fitted, incandescent may well overcome such issues and work normally.
You can try by passing the stock wiring/connection points to each lamp on the right side, all the way from power side of switch to/from flasher, to the lamps. Essentially eliminate all connections between power and flasher, flasher and lamps, just to try to pin down where the fault is.
Yes, that sounds like a good idea, although at this point I'm tempted to ditch the LED signals idea....
I did remove the ts switch and look it over but didn't completely disassemble it.... probably would be a good idea also.
 
What befuddles me is if I swap the ts leads inside the headlight shell the problem goes to the other side...I'm going to double check that right now to make sure this is what's happening. I should be writing this stuff down be cause of CRS syndrome lol.
 
I went back to the beginning because I have tried so many different scenarios I can't remember what did what...so I'm going to write it down. Oh wait, I already have in this thread 😂

All led's, LED flasher, tweaker installed. All four signal light up but not as bright as they should be, doesn't matter if the switch is in the left or right position.

I'm going to take apart the ts switch and clean the contacts and check connections. If that doesn't do anything I'll run separate wires to each bulb and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.
 
bin the tweaker and just plug in one of the new generation frequency adjustable flasher units Lucas now sell along with their LED bulb range
this can be quickly adjusted to match the bulbs with the required flash frequency by turning a screw adjuster

Paul Goff is still trading the old Gen 1 LED bulbs and flasher units things have moved on new production bulbs are no longer polarity / voltage sensitive
and simple solutions for flasher relays / warning light issues are now available if the switching and earth path are all good using the new generation LED stuff is much more
plug and play with no mods required
 
bin the tweaker..

If the tweaker (two diodes) isn't fitted then both sets of LED indicators will flash as it's there to prevent current from the flashing side crossing over to the non-flashing side through the warning bulb because the warning bulb connects to both indicator circuits and not due to the warning lamp LED being polarity-sensitive.

Mark III LED turn signal help


and just plug in one of the new generation frequency adjustable flasher units Lucas now sell along with their LED bulb range
this can be quickly adjusted to match the bulbs with the required flash frequency by turning a screw adjuster

The apparent problem is that the current is somehow crossing over from the flashing to the non-flashing side even with the tweaker fitted resulting in all four LED indicators glowing at once regardless of which side is selected that I doubt a different flasher relay is going to cure.
 
L.A.B. , I just wanted to thank you for your help with the Grant Tiller Mark 3 color wiring diagram . I found it via a Google search. The diagram I have from the repair manual is hard to read and a little fuzzy from being a copy.

I am also having an issue with the tail light and brake like both coming on when the main switch is in the headlight position. The brake lights both work correctly in the first position. I don't know how long it's been like that because I follow the Lucas motto of "Get home before dark" 😂

I had to break away from working on the turn signal issue to take care of some chores around the house. It's raining here today so it's a good time to get back in the garage....
 
L.A.B. , I just wanted to thank you for your help with the Grant Tiller Mark 3 color wiring diagram . I found it via a Google search. The diagram I have from the repair manual is hard to read and a little fuzzy from being a copy.

:)

I am also having an issue with the tail light and brake like both coming on when the main switch is in the headlight position. The brake lights both work correctly in the first position.

LED or normal incandescent bulb?

For an incandescent bulb, the brake (brown) and tail lamp (brown/green) wires could be crossed over.
The brake light at the first key position would work but at reduced (tail lamp) brightness.

Or, perhaps one feed and the ground wire are crossed over?
 
:)



LED or normal incandescent bulb?

For an incandescent bulb, the brake (brown) and tail lamp (brown/green) wires could be crossed over.
The brake light at the first key position would work but at reduced (tail lamp) brightness.

Or, perhaps one feed and the ground wire are crossed over?

I have an LED in but have tried both incandescent and LED with the same results. As long as I'm in the garage today I'll dig into that also.
 
My apologies...I thought I had thrown that bridged incandescent bulb away. Thats the one I kept trying until I looked at it closely.
So the good incandescent works properly for the tail and brake lights....after I went down the rabbit hole of tracing wires. I'm getting 2 VDC at the brake light terminal of the socket, enought to light the LED I assume. I knew they would work on low voltage but didn't know that low.

I'm guessing one of the switches is faulty enough to pass a couple volts? That's where I'm going next anyway....
 
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