Seeking advice

Why did they specify that in place of a proprietary thread lube Stu, any idea ?
I'd assume to prevent galling of the stainless fixings, and then used on the centre two to keep the applied torque even across the head. I don't know, I'm a grease monkey, not an engineer 🤷🏻‍♂️😂
 
I'd assume to prevent galling of the stainless fixings, and then used on the centre two to keep the applied torque even across the head. I don't know, I'm a grease monkey, not an engineer 🤷🏻‍♂️😂
Well yes, all of that, plus prevent torque absorbing friction and thus allow correct clamping force on the gasket at the specified torque setting, etc… but that’s what thread lube is designed for !

Not a big topic worthy of any big discussion, woz just curious.
 
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Seeking advice
Seeking advice
Seeking advice
 
Fasteners build up friction over time and get stuck. Hence the term to ‘crack’ the bolt.

Generally, on cylinder head bolts, they go through fairly dramatic heat cycles. This heat also ‘burns’ the grease to a degree. The grease still does its job of preventing galling, but it’s lubricity is greatly diminished.

What I’m getting at here, is that I humbly disagree with not backing the bolts off first in order to ‘crack’ them and remove that initial friction. Without doing that, I suggest you run the risk of having inaccurate torque settings, with the inaccuracy being on the low side.
 
Fasteners build up friction over time and get stuck. Hence the term to ‘crack’ the bolt.

Generally, on cylinder head bolts, they go through fairly dramatic heat cycles. This heat also ‘burns’ the grease to a degree. The grease still does its job of preventing galling, but it’s lubricity is greatly diminished.

What I’m getting at here, is that I humbly disagree with not backing the bolts off first in order to ‘crack’ them and remove that initial friction. Without doing that, I suggest you run the risk of having inaccurate torque settings, with the inaccuracy being on the low side.
I wonder what the TVS Norton factory is advising ? Should we take a vote ? Do we call them TVS-Norton or Birmingham-Norton or something else ?
 
I did question this whilst at Norton, but was told slackening was not required. Tbf on average they turn 1/8th to a quarter on average and require minimal effort to overcome the break away torque, and continue onto 60nm smoothly. The rear outer two usually turn the most, with the centre two the least.
 
That Extreme pressure lube gets very good reviews Stu. Can you buy it in the U.K. ?
I bought it online, as its what we used at Norton. Same as the Threebond rtv, the Dow Corning heat sink compound, the Threebond silicone grease and Silkolene Pro RG2 grease.....on engine assembly its just the brand of thread lock I've changed, from Threebond to Loctite.
 
I did question this whilst at Norton, but was told slackening was not required. Tbf on average they turn 1/8th to a quarter on average and require minimal effort to overcome the break away torque, and continue onto 60nm smoothly. The rear outer two usually turn the most, with the centre two the least.
I wonder if that's why they told the guy who had Norton agree to get his own bike serviced that only the outer nuts need to be re-torqued...


 
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Fasteners build up friction over time and get stuck. Hence the term to ‘crack’ the bolt.

Generally, on cylinder head bolts, they go through fairly dramatic heat cycles. This heat also ‘burns’ the grease to a degree. The grease still does its job of preventing galling, but it’s lubricity is greatly diminished.

What I’m getting at here, is that I humbly disagree with not backing the bolts off first in order to ‘crack’ them and remove that initial friction. Without doing that, I suggest you run the risk of having inaccurate torque settings, with the inaccuracy being on the low side.
No, no, no, do not crack them loose. You can talk about sticktion or whatever BS, but if you loosen the bolt and then re-tighten, the retorque requirement will never end since you are always changing it. It only needs to be checked and retorqued if needed. Also, adding Loctite, grease, or anything else will change the reading if you go down that path.

But you better make sure that you have an ACCURATE tourqe wrench. The higher the foot-pounds, the more error will be if your wrench is not properly calibrated.
 
but if you loosen the bolt and then re-tighten, the retorque requirement will never end since you are always changing it.
BS? Backing off to re torque is common practice.

Can you please explain your point above point? I just don’t understand.
 
BS? Backing off to re torque is common practice.

Can you please explain your point above point? I just don’t understand.
Its important to address a few misconceptions often circulated online or by those without hands-on experience. Many who suggest practices like head bolt retorque are either following outdated advice or simply echoing what they've heard from others on forums without understanding the engineering behind it.

First off, let's consider modern vehicles—whether cars or motorcycles. When was the last time you had to take a new vehicle back to the dealer for a head retorque after an initial service? Probably never. That's because once the initial torque sequence is complete, there's no way to replicate it without compromising the integrity of the gasket. If you loosen those bolts for a retorque, the gasket won't return to its original state, which is why bolt marking is done. This lets you visually confirm if anything has shifted.

Moreover, every major modern gasket manufacturer will tell you that a retorque is unnecessary. These companies design their gaskets to perform optimally with the initial torque and bolt stretch. Even in a Harley, which is a close comparison to the 961, there’s no factory procedure for loosening and re-torquing head bolts.

Now, in the case of the 961, it's true that the engine components aren't up to the same quality standards as more refined engines. Norton included a TSB head bolt check because the bolts, gaskets, and other components are of lower quality, the motor tends to run extremely hot, and they had issues with build quality. It's essentially a way for the manufacturer and dealers to cover themselves for potential issues arising from subpar parts

Take ARP, for example They will never advise you to back off a bolt that’s already been torqued to spec. Instead, they recommend the use of their Ultra Torque Lube to ensure consistent torque readings and to prevent issues like galling. The emphasis is on consistency, not revisiting bolts that have already been stretched and torqued.

If you're insistent on checking torque, that's fine. But if you decide to start backing off fasteners that have been torqued at the factory, especially when the factory manual advises against it, you're asking for trouble. A quick check with a properly calibrated torque wrench, followed by paint-marking the bolts, is sufficient to monitor for any movement. If you're finding that a bolt has shifted an 1/32 or more, you've likely got bigger problems to address than just the torque. Something else in the system could be failing, misaligned or wasn't done correctly to start with from the factory.

Now if you want to talk pre 1980 engines that's another discussion.
 
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