Rocker oil lines

Thanks..I have the tools, no problem there. Just wondering #1 does the head have to come off to remove spindles? and #2 no seal of any kind between the shafts once drilled?[/quote]


#1
You can remove the shafts with the head intact. Keep track of the springs and shims. You will have to warm the head to remove and install the shafts, pay attention to the flats on the shaft as they have to go back facing the same direction that they came out, and the location of the notches on the end of the shaft.

#2 No seal. Shaft is a tight fit, that's why you need to heat the head.

Pete

cjandme said:

Thanks for posting that picture Pete. That looks like a nice and clean installation of an oil pressure gauge, I like the look of this better than the one that runs up thru the center of the steering head due to the line routing.

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I have seen 2 different Nortons with the line running up the thru the steering head that had dents in their front fenders. I asked Old Britts about that and they said they had no reports of it.

John in Texas

N0rt0nelectr@ said:

cjandme said:

Thanks for posting that picture Pete. That looks like a nice and clean installation of an oil pressure gauge, I like the look of this better than the one that runs up thru the center of the steering head due to the line routing.

Click to expand...

I have seen 2 different Nortons with the line running up the thru the steering head that had dents in their front fenders. I asked Old Britts about that and they said they had no reports of it.

John in Texas

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I've seen this as well.

MikeG said:

N0rt0nelectr@ said:

cjandme said:

Thanks for posting that picture Pete. That looks like a nice and clean installation of an oil pressure gauge, I like the look of this better than the one that runs up thru the center of the steering head due to the line routing.

Click to expand...

I have seen 2 different Nortons with the line running up the thru the steering head that had dents in their front fenders. I asked Old Britts about that and they said they had no reports of it.

John in Texas

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I've seen this as well.

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Mine dented the fender. There is about a 1/4" of excess (for my yoke) tube length. I keep meaning yo trim it down, but get busy with bigger things.

MikeG said:

Deets55 said:

MikeG said:

OK then...what is involved in drilling the rocker shafts? Sounds like the better way to go.

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The procedure would be to remove the rocker shafts, break the hardened surface on the shaft end and then drill both intake shafts along the long axis. Unfortunately without a good carbide burr(s), good drill bits and a good drill press it could be a difficult job. My head was at Jim's so I had him do the work. IMO you have a couple of choices, contact Jim and have him drill two new (or maybe good used shafts) and have him ship them to you, send him your shafts and have him drill them, attempt it yourself ( it's definitely possible depending on your skill set and tool situation) , or find a locale machine shop. There is a thread on the forum somewhere where Jim goes over the steps. Hope this helps.

Pete

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Thanks..I have the tools, no problem there. Just wondering #1 does the head have to come off to remove spindles? and #2 no seal of any kind between the shafts once drilled?

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The shafts are interference fit, so no seal is needed. Any oil escaping would just drain down the head with the rest.

You can pull the spindles without removing anything other than the rocker cover and the spindle cover plates. Here's how I would do it:

If possible, run the engine until hot. Makes it much easier to get the spindles out. Pull the plugs for easy rotation and get one intake valve on the clearance ramp of the cam. This way, no spring pressure on the rocker. Pull the rocker shaft, rocker, thrust washer and spring. Drill the shaft and then toss it in the freezer for a few hours. Use a propane torch to heat the shaft bore on either side of the valve. Reassemble by tapping the shaft home through the rocker and washers and replace the cover plates. Once the shaft is started in the rocker bore, you can squeeze in the spring washer and tap the shaft home. A little oil or assembly lube on the rocker bore and and shaft bores in the head will help ease the install. Repeat the process on the other intake rocker shaft. Once that is done, you can block off the left oil inlet and put on the new line with no crossover.

Thanks..I have the tools, no problem there. Just wondering #1 does the head have to come off to remove spindles? and #2 no seal of any kind between the shafts once drilled?[/quote]

The shafts are interference fit, so no seal is needed. Any oil escaping would just drain down the head with the rest.

You can pull the spindles without removing anything other than the rocker cover and the spindle cover plates. Here's how I would do it:

If possible, run the engine until hot. Makes it much easier to get the spindles out. Pull the plugs for easy rotation and get one intake valve on the clearance ramp of the cam. This way, no spring pressure on the rocker. Pull the rocker shaft, rocker, thrust washer and spring. Drill the shaft and then toss it in the freezer for a few hours. Use a propane torch to heat the shaft bore on either side of the valve. Reassemble by tapping the shaft home through the rocker and washers and replace the cover plates. Once the shaft is started in the rocker bore, you can squeeze in the spring washer and tap the shaft home. A little oil or assembly lube on the rocker bore and and shaft bores in the head will help ease the install. Repeat the process on the other intake rocker shaft. Once that is done, you can block off the left oil inlet and put on the new line with no crossover.[/quote]

I like the idea. My biggest concern is being the fumble fingered fellow I am dropping one of the washers down inside the head and having to pull it off to retrieve it.

MikeG said:

Does it matter which side, (and how were they from the factory) the rocker oil feed lines runs to from the timing chest before it jumps to the other side? I'm making new braided stainless lines and am trying to keep them as far away from vulnerable other bits.
Thanks

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This thread strayed a bit from your original question. No, it doesn't seem to matter which side of the head that the oil feed line originates from. From the factory they went to the right side first-less tubing is my guess. I put new stock oil lines on my 73 and the line from the timing chest was so long that I routed it to the left side first. 25,000 miles on the original RH setup, 19,000 on the current LH setup. No issues.

MikeG said:

I like the idea. My biggest concern is being the fumble fingered fellow I am dropping one of the washers down inside the head and having to pull it off to retrieve it.

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Just keep a magnet handy. With the head off and turned up vertical, the dropped washer will tend to fall al the way through the opposite port, but in situ, I would think it would fall down the spring pocket area. The main place to avoid is the pushrod tunnel. I stuck the outside thrust washer to the rocker with some grease and as soon as the shaft was most of the way through, I squeezed the spring washer into it's place and tapped the shaft home.

Hi All,

I'm probably missing something but I can't see how the left exhaust rocker spindle is lubricated when the oil comes only from the right hand side.

Easy to see how it goes to RH intake, RH exhaust and LH intake (thanks to the drilled spindles), but what about the LH exhaust?

Laurent

well if all 4 rocker shafys have the ends drilled then they can all be fed by either side of the head.

laurentdom said:

I'm probably missing something but I can't see how the left exhaust rocker spindle is lubricated when the oil comes only from the right hand side.

Easy to see how it goes to RH intake, RH exhaust and LH intake (thanks to the drilled spindles), but what about the LH exhaust?

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Oil from the outer end of L/H intake spindle can flow through the original feed drillings on that side of the head to L/H exhaust spindle.

madass140 said:

well if all 4 rocker shafys have the ends drilled then they can all be fed by either side of the head.

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Actually only the 2 inlet rocker shaft ends have to be drilled for all rockers to be fed by either side of the head :wink:

Clear enough! Many thanks L.A.B.

There are small oil galleys on either side. With the crossover gone and one side plugged, the plugged side oil galley will accommodate reverse flow from the intake rocker shaft to the exhaust. Only caveat would be the size of the holes drilled in the shafts, to maintain pressure. I'm sure you can get that from Jim's video. I would use as short a bolt as possible for the plug with a fiber washer.

If you plug the left hand hole do not use a bolt that is too long. It will block the oil flow. Per Jim's recommendation do not go longer than 1/2".
Off the top of my head it should be a 5/16" x 22 x 1/2" bolt. It is available from British Fasteners

Pete

Danno said:

There are small oil galleys on either side. With the crossover gone and one side plugged, the plugged side oil galley will accommodate reverse flow from the intake rocker shaft to the exhaust. Only caveat would be the size of the holes drilled in the shafts, to maintain pressure. I'm sure you can get that from Jim's video. I would use as short a bolt as possible for the plug with a fiber washer.

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The size of the holes drilled in the rocker shafts don't change the oil pressure as these holes are just part of the flow route (no possible oil leakage from the flow at that point). Leakage due to worn inside seating of the inlet rocker shafts could reduce oil pressure however the size of the drilled hole will still not change the oil pressure.

nortonspeed said:

madass140 said:

well if all 4 rocker shafys have the ends drilled then they can all be fed by either side of the head.

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Actually only the 2 inlet rocker shaft ends have to be drilled for all rockers to be fed by either side of the head :wink:

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Not only that, there is no point in drilling the exhaust rocker shafts as the inner ends are not connected in any way. The inlet ones are.

Actually this is such a sensible and neat way of feeding oil to the rockers it's a wonder the factory didn't do it. It would have saved cost too, when they were looking at cost -cutting measures. (the shimmed isolastics come to mind. I believe they were originally designed with vernier adjusters, but shims were cheaper).

How many decades did they have to think about this?

"Not only that, there is no point in drilling the exhaust rocker shafts as the inner ends are not connected in any way. The inlet ones are."
correct of course, my only concern would be someone down the track mixing the shafts up if only 2 were drilled, that may cause a problem.

nortonspeed said:

madass140 said:

well if all 4 rocker shafys have the ends drilled then they can all be fed by either side of the head.

Click to expand...

Actually only the 2 inlet rocker shaft ends have to be drilled for all rockers to be fed by either side of the head :wink:

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I would think that the oil pump might need higher pressure to get to the last rocker?

John in Texas

N0rt0nelectr@ said:

nortonspeed said:

madass140 said:

well if all 4 rocker shafys have the ends drilled then they can all be fed by either side of the head.

Click to expand...

Actually only the 2 inlet rocker shaft ends have to be drilled for all rockers to be fed by either side of the head :wink:

Click to expand...

I would think that the oil pump might need higher pressure to get to the last rocker?

John in Texas

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John,
I have almost 400 miles in the three weeks since I completed my rebuild. My gauge shows 60+ psi at highway speeds and has not dropped below 18 psi at 1000 rpm idle. But it is February and I am in New Jersey so I will have to wait for the summer to see what happens with a hot engine. We did have a couple of warm days (65-70) and after a 50 mile highway run I still had that 18 psi at the end of the ramp. What I don't know is the actual volume of oil going to the head, but I think the size of the line from the pump to the head is the limiting factor for that. Right now I have a -3AN SS line. Which is probably the same as the stock vinyl/ rubber line. I might bump that to a -4AN but really don't expect anything different.
Pete