Result of Tri Spark

I don't think separate components is a weak point. Who decided that was a universal flaw in other systems? I think in theory the single unit (Trispark) is great, but in reality doesn't pan out quite as well as anticipated. The only issue I ever recall happening on another EI is the that boyer is know for wires cracking on the trigger plate sometimes, easy fix big deal other than that I don't know of other EI that have issues because of separate components. I wish the classic twin trispark had separate components, any chance of that?

comnoz said:

Quote Cash;
apparently the only ever coil failure,


I though I had the only one [or two]. Jim

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No, we had the only 7 between our triples and my commando's. Boyer?? Never again!

As Steve Kellys response indicates.....he is continously working on testing the system, something I doubt many of the other manufacturers of electronic ignitions are doing. Steve feels that he is addressing anything that he comes across that needs to be changed....thats good enough for me, and better than what you can expect from ' the other guys'. You also need to accept that Steve Kelly has a great understanding and a lot of knowledge when it comes to electronics. The ignition system wasnt just developed overnight.

What we can not disregard is the fact that there are hundreds of Tri Sparks installed on bikes that are performing perfectly. I have a big stack of positive feedback from people that switched to a Tri Spark and would never consider going back to any other unit.

I have over the years talked to plenty of people that had zero problems with their Boyer Ignitions (I cant even guess how many of them have been sold over the years). I have also talked to just as many, or more, that have had nothing but issues. My box that have failed Boyers in it is plenty full. We are talking about pick-up plates, and control boxes both. The only thing I never had problems with was the rotor with the magnets.

There is a reason that there are a couple of pages of trouble shooting for Boyers in the Norton Tech Digest that is produced by the INOA. Its there because these units have been having issues for many years. The Sparx unit I used for a year or so and had more then a 50% failure rate. Cant say that I have much experience with the Pazon as I only installed it on one bike.

Heres the thing. If you like and trust the Boyer, Sparx or Pazon units....then great. Use it and hopefully it will never cause you any problems. If you want to run an alternative like a Magneto or if you want to run your standard points....go fo it. But if you want to use what many consider being the best unit for Commandos on the market, the Tri Spark, then you have the chooice to do that as well.

The thread is just getting old with all the negativity, mostly by people that arent even using a Tri Spark. If you got a problem with how something is designed, how something looks or how its priced, then it may just not be for you. Hopefully you can find something that you want to use instead.

I for one, will keep using the Tri Spark. Personally I dont think anything else comes even close.

Matt
Colorado Norton Works

Arrgh,

As the proud owner and rider of a 2010 HD DynaGlide, and a student of the HD shop manual, I can assure you that the logic electronics of the HD ignition system is NOT on the engine, but is housed remotely in the ECU, the control module, attached to the frame, as it has been for years. The only ignition element attached to the engine, excepting the spark plugs, is the crankshaft position sensor. Steve is quite wrong in his assertion. Among the serious EI players, TriSpark alone places the logic electronics in the timing cavity. TriSpark obtains some marketing mojo from this arrangement, and, as the length of this thread shows, some controversy as well.

Rick

Matt, I think that it's a little unfair to suggest that those of us who may be considering purchasing a Tri-Spark are being negative in wanting to be certain that there are no significant 'issues' with the unit.

I'm glad that Steve Kelly has been able to post about the unit. I realise of course that commercial confidentiality will mean that he can't be 100% free with the information he gives. I'd be interested to know if the units on Commandos have suffered more (or even less) failures than on the Bonnevilles and BSAs that LAB mentioned. It's sometimes hard to avoid the impression that Commandos are capable of trashing components which never give trouble on other bikes (I've never blown a light bulb though ! )

It would also be reassuring if the manufacturer could say 'yes, there was a problem but it's now sorted'. Continual development is great but I don't want to be the one doing the early stages !

I quite agree with your comments on Boyer reliability. The positive side for me is that I bought a second one when they were £30 or so and if I'm abroad, I carry a complete spare unit which means that I'm never going to be stranded for long. I need to be certain that I won't end up having to do the same thing again before I make the decision to change. I don't regard that as negativity, simply prudence.

79x100 said:

Matt, I think that it's a little unfair to suggest that those of us who may be considering purchasing a Tri-Spark are being negative in wanting to be certain that there are no significant 'issues' with the unit.
I'm glad that Steve Kelly has been able to post about the unit.

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I would agree with these statements and the boyer reliability issues to an extent. The boyer has been around for decades and no doubt has a lot more data fto compare failures and non failures, but is half the price of the trispark. That is where I have my biggest issue. If the trispark was price competitive and then only only had a handful of issues it really would be different, but if I'm going to pay double for something I expect the return in reliability as well as performance to be "at least" as good as a 140.00 dollar unit. I believe people have a tendency to defend or protect what they have an investment in so I understand those that have already bought into this or are vendors would be a tad biased in their opinions and quick to judge those of us that aren't in yet. I currently run two Pazon units which are flawless in their performance and reliability @ 140.00 each and two boyers; the one in my commando has been good for 10 years and I believe it was around the same price. So I'll let everyone else goes through the ongoing development, continue to participate in discussions and will wait a few more years until I am comfortable with putting down 300 bucks for something that has a better track record. I do appreciate Steve posting and at least explaining a few things. 8)

philippe :lol:

the whole thread is a dead horse thats been beaten several times for every angle

rick in seattle said:

Arrgh,

As the proud owner and rider of a 2010 HD DynaGlide, and a student of the HD shop manual, I can assure you that the logic electronics of the HD ignition system is NOT on the engine, but is housed remotely in the ECU, the control module, attached to the frame, as it has been for years. The only ignition element attached to the engine, excepting the spark plugs, is the crankshaft position sensor. Steve is quite wrong in his assertion. Among the serious EI players, TriSpark alone places the logic electronics in the timing cavity. TriSpark obtains some marketing mojo from this arrangement, and, as the length of this thread shows, some controversy as well.

Rick

Click to expand...

You didn't read his statement either, he mentions a few aftermarket supplier for the HD, not the stock configuration. :roll:

broken links removed

And so on.

britbike220 said:

the whole thread is a dead horse thats been beaten several times for every angle

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think it's time to start a new oil thread. So what's the best oil?

prmurat said:

philippe :lol:

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ROFLMAO!

I think we need a thread on how to properly sharpen an axe. So far, lots of grinding, not much chopping!

I have a tri-spark, so I'm biased. Thanks CNW.

A few things come to mind -

First, the stock ignition is fine, except for the auto advance. That piece of junk is the only reason why I went to electronic.
At one time I hard chromed the parts of a new one; eventually it started sticking too. Otherwise, I just locked the auto advance with a washer under the timing bolt and set the timing; ran it with no advance.

Second, Boyer misrepresented - they've sold thousands of units with Triumph advance curves to Norton owners. IMO, unforgiveable.

Third, if Fred's gasket tends to islolate the heat coming from the timing chest from getting to the cover, and the cover is then radiating heat back at the module, and the cover is out in the breeze, then it may well reduce the temperature in there a bit. Can't hurt. Maybe get a finned cover to go with the gasket? I bought one of Fred's gaskets so I'm biased on this one too.

Fourth, Tri-Spark apparently has a "no questions asked" replacement policy; obviously they lose money and reputation if their units fail, so I give no credibility to the insinuation that Tri-Spark screws the customer with cheap short term parts.

Lastly, the design is elegant, simple. That's why it's built into the points area. Installation was a breeze. When I look at the parts, the design, the very idea that the design is the result of a rapacious company, is offensive, thoughtless.

I'm hoping Trisparks are just as prone to heat as my hi end optical triggered 4 curve digital programmable 3-sparker unit that all fits under sealed hot cover.

Well, despite everything I've read I'll be buying a Tri Spark for my Triton when it's finished. The lack of a separate unit alone makes it interesting and over there on the "dark side" (The Triumph RAT Forum) I've not heard of any problems with them, although I think venting them is a good idea, well it can't do any harm.

Webby

have followed this for awhile, nearly bought a Trispark since it appears to be the best system performance wise but the heat and vibration concerns coupled with the high price put me off ($300 + $30 shipping from CNW), decided to go with a Pazon at about 1/3 the total price, $115 shipped from NZ with their current promotion (not here yet)....anyway FWIW it seems to me that it would not be too difficult for Trispark to make another version with a detached control unit and then the buyer could decide which was best for them, if that were an option would have gone with it myself.

Note; The Pazon ignition has a Hall sensor mounted in the points box. Jim

Ah Jim, :wink: :lol:

I to have been following this discussion for a while, I have 2 pasions in life, Nortons which i have owned, raced and played with for 35+ years and fast harleys, buying my first harley in 1991, a 1340 fxlr that i got 84 rear wheel horse power out of running a Crane Hi4 ignition which was mounted in the timing cone i owned that bike for 7 and a half years with no problems, in the harley evo world there are a number of ignition units that mount in the timing cone Crane & daytona twintec to name 2 i also beleive the 99 and later sportsters ignitions were motor mounted. If anybody is interested my current ride that i have owned for 9 years is 100hp and a 111 ft ponds of torque. And yes i built and raced a Supercharged Norton Speedway Sidecar in the late 70's and it was fitted with a early boyer ignition unit that mounted in the points housing.

There is no reason whatsoever for a properly designed aftermarket ignition not to provide increased performance, and almost bulletproof reliability. However this is a very competitive market, and saving money in relation to to production costs is all important, so buyers end up with second rate systems, which are poorly designed and made, that means that a high failure rate is assured.