Result of Tri Spark

comnoz · Jan 4, 2011

Cash, I had a couple of the micro-digital coils fail around 6 to 8 years ago. I knew of a few other people who had failures also so you were not alone. I haven't used one of their systems lately but I guess they must have gotten the problem fixed as I haven't heard many complaints. Jim

Commando75 · Jan 4, 2011

Here is a picture that was taken during the actual Trispark failure. Perhaps eagle eyed readers will spot something I missed.

Here is a shot of my Trispark ventilation system beta test. Preliminary tests are very positive. Sorry no graphs yet ; )

jseng1 · Jan 4, 2011

I've used electonic ignitions - they're fine. But nothing beats the reliability/simplicity of a good magneto and you can toss the battery. By "good" magneto I mean the current Joe Hunt with race earth magnets that sparks so well the bike starts befor the kickstart travels more that 1/2 way down. By contrast - Lucas mags are the worst.

I've worked out a silicon seal and easy adjustment tool & fasteners for the Joe Hunt. I set it up and then never touched it all year.

Hobot · Jan 4, 2011

Only thing I can see wrong Cdo75, is too much shiny stuff to reflex heat waves back in to ignition till it pops the cover off to expell the excess? I guess you
could just put back on when in rain on muddy paths to save some cleaning as water or oil should not mess with a sealed potted component. TriSpark is only system I've heard of so far that needs ventilation in some cases. Hope they get it figured out it it really is an innate issue not just luck of the dice throw spending.

rvich · Jan 4, 2011

Commando75,
It would be interesting to run a temperature strip in your points cavity to see where you are in relation to other reports. I don't doubt your results...I just don't know for sure why. It will be awhile before I get any more road time as we are in the middle of the Alaskan winter and the bike is put back into project mode for the duration. But I have been shopping for strips and plan to run one on my bike for my own information.

Russ

AntrimMan · Jan 4, 2011

Commando75 said:
Here is a picture that was taken during the actual Trispark failure. Perhaps eagle eyed readers will spot something I missed.

Here is a shot of my Trispark ventilation system beta test. Preliminary tests are very positive. Sorry no graphs yet ; )

nothing spark related, but, second photo shows the tachometer boot ajar and the tachometer light bulb is 180* from expected position. My bulb is adjacent to the console on the Smiths.

prmurat · Jan 4, 2011

jseng1 said:
I've used electonic ignitions - they're fine. But nothing beats the reliability/simplicity of a good magneto and you can toss the battery. By "good" magneto I mean the current Joe Hunt with race earth magnets that sparks so well the bike starts befor the kickstart travels more that 1/2 way down. By contrast - Lucas mags are the worst.

I've worked out a silicon seal and easy adjustment tool & fasteners for the Joe Hunt. I set it up and then never touched it all year.

Nice mag!!! do you have any advance device? I love mags but if I rember Hunt mags always needed to be rewired from new (late 70s experience on HD), are they better now? how is the idle? kick back? is this a kit or did you do everything yourself? do you do long rides with it?
thanks

Philippe

jseng1 · Jan 4, 2011

Phillipe

I would call it a kit because of the extras I provide. The tool and improved fasteners make it much easier to set up. The coil is one piece and comes off with just two screws. The Atlas advance mechanizm makes for easier starting and eliminates kickback but you must mount it behind the cylinders and Commandos need machining for that. Long rides - It has never missed a beat. Check it out at jsmotorsport.com

Steve Kelly · Jan 4, 2011

Riders,
As the designer and manufacturer of the Tri-Spark ignition system I'm reading this thread with much interest. As you can imagine we take the quality and reliability of our systems very seriously.

Readers here might be interested to know that we have an in house a program of ongoing testing and design review including a temperature cycling chamber that runs the complete system with coils and spark plugs up to operating temperature and beyond.

It heats for 1 hour and then cools for one hour for 5 cycles a day while the ignition system is powered up and producing sparks at the rate of 60 MPH. This system has already completed more test cycles than customers bikes could realistically do in 3 years.

The operating temperature of the engine is an important aspect to this design and I welcome the results of any measurements that you might make. The temperature test strip that L.A.B. has used agrees with our own testing but there may be other figures out there that we need to be aware of. We run our tester to 25 degrees Celsius higher than the expected normal operating temperature of the engine as a stress test to accelerate the testing process and to help identify any potentially weak components.

At various times we have also tested the design for operation and reliability during events of low battery, over voltage, spikes in voltage, reverse battery polarity, overload from a simulated coil failure, faulty wiring and other key tests.

The units returned to us for warrantee replacement have been vigorously reviewed to determine the cause of the failure. These represent a tiny fraction of the systems in service but we still look at each one individually to see what has happened. The design is subject to constant review to ensure the utmost in reliability.

The components that we use are selected for their properties and quality. If a weak component could be identified it would be eliminated from the design and future production without delay.

It’s also interesting to note here that many of the Harley Davidson systems from companies like Dyna, Crane Cams, Accel and Twin TEC utilise construction methods similar to our own with all the active components inside the engine module. Building the system in this way reduces the number of modules and wiring connections which simplifies the installation and makes troubleshooting easier.

We are very approachable as some of you would already know and appreciate any feedback we receive via email or telephone from our customers. Our preferred method of contact is through the contact form on our website and we look forward to hearing from you!

Best wishes and ride safe,

Stephen Kelly
Tri-Spark
http://www.trispark.com.au

JimC · Jan 4, 2011

Stephen,

Thank you for the post. Very timely, for I'm considering replacing my Boyer. From reading your post I see the equivalent of 3 years operation with no failures. Is this correct? Have you tried anything longer than the one hour cycles? I would like to know if you've had any failures with your testing and if so what was the problem. I.e., was it heat related?

batrider · Jan 4, 2011

Any elevated temperature functional testing (burn-in) on production units before they go out?

ML · Jan 4, 2011

I like what Steve Kelly has written and I trust his products as I do Boyer or any other electronic system available to British twins. My number one recommendation to any Commando or other 1970's era British bike owner is that the Lucas handlebar switch cluster is going to be near 40 years old and the corrosion and fragility of soldered connectors in the switch cluster with the Kill Button is the one that is by far and away the most likely cause of ignition problems. Sort that out and you will have all the reliability you could expect from a modern brand new motorcycle.

Mick

GRM 450 · Jan 4, 2011

Mick makes a very important point re the Kill switch.
My Mk3 came with a Pazon system (which does what it's suposed to do) and when I rebuilt the bike I paid attention to the old switches which were very bad.
After nearly 5000kms of mostly wet riding I had the engine cutting out due to the kill switch intermitantly failing.
This is due to the old design of the switches and nothing to do with the modern electronics, whatever brand they are.
So I agree it's very important to regularly dismantle and clean and lubricate the old switches.
graeme

JimC · Jan 4, 2011

I have a twelve year old Boyer MKIII and it has a serious flaw. As many Boyer owners have reported, the wires from the pickup coils fracture. It can be fixed relatively easy by the owner. Has Boyer remedied this on their later units? If so, how? I really don't think the buyer should have to modify these ignitions to make them reliable. The whole point of going to an EI is reliability over points.

Carbonfibre · Jan 5, 2011

Steve Kelly said:
Riders,
As the designer and manufacturer of the Tri-Spark ignition system I'm reading this thread with much interest. As you can imagine we take the quality and reliability of our systems very seriously.

Readers here might be interested to know that we have an in house a program of ongoing testing and design review including a temperature cycling chamber that runs the complete system with coils and spark plugs up to operating temperature and beyond.

It heats for 1 hour and then cools for one hour for 5 cycles a day while the ignition system is powered up and producing sparks at the rate of 60 MPH. This system has already completed more test cycles than customers bikes could realistically do in 3 years.

The operating temperature of the engine is an important aspect to this design and I welcome the results of any measurements that you might make. The temperature test strip that L.A.B. has used agrees with our own testing but there may be other figures out there that we need to be aware of. We run our tester to 25 degrees Celsius higher than the expected normal operating temperature of the engine as a stress test to accelerate the testing process and to help identify any potentially weak components.

At various times we have also tested the design for operation and reliability during events of low battery, over voltage, spikes in voltage, reverse battery polarity, overload from a simulated coil failure, faulty wiring and other key tests.

The units returned to us for warrantee replacement have been vigorously reviewed to determine the cause of the failure. These represent a tiny fraction of the systems in service but we still look at each one individually to see what has happened. The design is subject to constant review to ensure the utmost in reliability.

The components that we use are selected for their properties and quality. If a weak component could be identified it would be eliminated from the design and future production without delay.

It’s also interesting to note here that many of the Harley Davidson systems from companies like Dyna, Crane Cams, Accel and Twin TEC utilise construction methods similar to our own with all the active components inside the engine module. Building the system in this way reduces the number of modules and wiring connections which simplifies the installation and makes troubleshooting easier.

We are very approachable as some of you would already know and appreciate any feedback we receive via email or telephone from our customers. Our preferred method of contact is through the contact form on our website and we look forward to hearing from you!

Best wishes and ride safe,

Stephen Kelly
Tri-Spark
http://www.trispark.com.au

If you take reliability and quality seriously, then why on earth are you placing crucially important electronic parts in the points cavity, where they are subject to heat, vibration, and in some cases excessive moisture?

Seems to me that in real terms this is done simply to reduce manufacturing costs, and has no discernible advantages in practice.

It seems to me that if someone took the time and trouble to properly design a high quality ignition system for MC applications, that even if the price was a little higher that whats available currently, that it would sell, simply due to the other systems having so many obvious issues.

cash · Jan 5, 2011

I have a twelve year old Boyer MKIII and it has a serious flaw.

Jim,
I might be wrong here, but if my memory serves me well.
The early Boyer pickup had a terminal block and didn't have this problem, it was only the later soldered unit that had. The early soldered units came with a loose cable tie that the fitter was supposed to secure the wires to the pickup board, failure to do this resulted in the soldered joint failing. This is what happened to my mate shortly after fitting a new early Mk3 Boyer, after resoldering and fitting the cable tie he hasn't had a problem since. In fact every spring he wheels out his Commando and with a flat battery, full sump and just kicks it into life, and he's done that for over 15 years. :? (He's bloody animal). Later pickups come with this cable tie fitted as did my Mk3 bought a year or two later to replace my very old Mk1 coz the terminal block had fallen to bits, and that same Mk3 pick up is currently running my MDP unit. We are not alone in my area I know of another dozen who run reliable Boyers ( 'cept Ed with his T160 for obvious reasons ), perhaps we've been lucky. :?:

Cash

marinatlas · Jan 5, 2011

Hi, me too I have been running Boyer since the eighties (can't remenber when I got rid of the points on my new commando bought in 1974) no problem ,except once when I had fitted one to my friends and we had a bad ground and fried three units!!
But apart of that , i had installed more than twenty without any complaints.....my not yet finished cafe racer have a MD boyer , will see what happens in the future..........but i was reading those posts with lot of attention, cause on my last project (before the end of my Norton life) a Norton powered seeley MK2, I intend to fit a tri spark.....or a saches ? or i had noticed in Classic racer the following
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/stk-022- ... 733-0.html
if any one (in UK , i imagine ?) had some feedback , it could help to improve my knowledge.....

britbike220 · Jan 5, 2011

marinatlas said:
i had noticed in Classic racer the following http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/stk-022- ... 733-0.html
if any one (in UK , i imagine ?) had some feedback , it could help to improve my knowledge.....

If you get more info on this please report back.

marinatlas · Jan 5, 2011

Hi there, sorry my friend no more info ......I had asked to one of my buddy in UK , and still waiting some feedback,
but take it easy , look at this one , same concept (sorry it's in French), it's a self generating ignition, with 14 advance curves, i had seen it in Paris at a bike classic show , and only it is made by a singleman company in Spain, i had tried to get some info about the curves , but at that time still waiting for..........the old world is waking up!

http://www.motronics.fr/Products/73-google.aspx

swooshdave · Jan 5, 2011

Carbonfibre said:
Steve Kelly said:

It’s also interesting to note here that many of the Harley Davidson systems from companies like Dyna, Crane Cams, Accel and Twin TEC utilise construction methods similar to our own with all the active components inside the engine module. Building the system in this way reduces the number of modules and wiring connections which simplifies the installation and makes troubleshooting easier.

Click to expand...

If you take reliability and quality seriously, then why on earth are you placing crucially important electronic parts in the points cavity, where they are subject to heat, vibration, and in some cases excessive moisture?

Seems to me that in real terms this is done simply to reduce manufacturing costs, and has no discernible advantages in practice.

It seems to me that if someone took the time and trouble to properly design a high quality ignition system for MC applications, that even if the price was a little higher that whats available currently, that it would sell, simply due to the other systems having so many obvious issues.

Apparently you didn't actually read this. He said that this practice is common in the Harley world so it's not without precedent. It was not done "simply to reduce manufacturing costs, and has no discernible advantages in practice." but rather to simplify the installation and reduce additional issues caused by separating the components (something that has historically been a weak point of other systems).

Result of Tri Spark

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