Tri-Spark bites the dust two years in

kommando said:

Boyer MK1, look at the spacer ring which lifts the points cover and creates a gap for cooling air. They gave up and moved to the black box on later versions.

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Interesting. Did NV offer Boyer Mk1 as an optional fitment on Mk2A & Mk3, or was it a retrofit product only?

- Knut

mdt-son said:

Interesting. Did NV offer Boyer Mk1 as an optional fitment on Mk2A & Mk3, or was it a retrofit product only?

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Only a Timelord could answer that one. Mine was on a 72 Combat so that points to retrofit, no pun intended.

I finished the install of a version 0006 TriSpark. Without changing any of the base wiring or the alternator, the engine fired right up idles and is as responsive to no road load throttle as it ever is. Haven't taken it out of the garage yet. Running low on give a sh_it today.

By the way, if you have not installed the 0006 TriSpark ignition the installation is different. I think based on how it is done one may end up with more advance sooner. It has been discussed by others, and I would imagine there are unique opinions. It probably would be good to strobe it and shoot for all in at 3500 RPM, but I won't do that unless it doesn't run well on the road.

One thing I did note when testing the alternator for charging at idle is that my lights even though LED lights do draw more juice than I thought they would. I'm not using any science. I'm looking at the voltage drop at idle of about 1 volt from 14.28V to 13.28V. I may change the 2 wire stator out or go to a 3 phase, or get a new head light. LiFePO4 voltage numbers are higher. I would prefer it stayed near 14V at idle with the lights on.

Anyway, first world problems.

After making sure again that my wiring and previous ignition installation (other than the crapped out old TriSpark) was good, I decided to update the coil and plug wires. Went with a Compu-Fire dual 3 Ohm coil and made up a pair of plug wires from some nearly new MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor plug wires for a SBC I had up on the shelf. Healthier spark with this coil than the 4.5 Ohm coil I was using. I can see why cNw sells this type of coil. I got it elsewhere as I don't need the parts included in cNw coil kit. Also cutting slots into the points cover. One cut nearly finished.

^^^ Cheeky little blighter isn’t he

Schwany said:

After making sure again that my wiring and previous ignition installation (other than the crapped out old TriSpark) was good, I decided to update the coil and plug wires. Went with a Compu-Fire dual 3 Ohm coil and made up a pair of plug wires from some nearly new MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor plug wires for a SBC I had up on the shelf. Healthier spark with this coil than the 4.5 Ohm coil I was using. I can see why cNw sells this type of coil. I got it elsewhere as I don't need the parts included in cNw coil kit. Also cutting slots into the points cover. One cut nearly finished.

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Looks happy enough

baz said:

Looks happy enough

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I put a couple more holes in that little wise guy cover and need to fit a fine mesh screen inside. I'll probably get out for a very short round the block test ride. Gonna get over 90F today and I don't want to have to push it very far if the new ignition can't take the heat.

Slits and holes so far. No screen yet. BTW, for the machinists that like to roll their eyes and dumb stuff people do, I'm doing this with a Dremel freehand.

Made it around the long block without the new TriSpark ignition crapping out. Smooth ride.

Points cover ended up with three larger oblong holes in front and the same two slits in back. Might help a little with air flowing over the engine. Won't make a big difference when stuck in traffic. Must avoid getting stuck in traffic on 90F degree days with this ignition.

I talked to the microchip engineer that I am currently working for yesterday about the heat resistance of solid state electronics. He said the only way to know how heat sensitive the circuitry is, would be to have a list of the component chips and know the temperature of the engine where they are mounted. He said that electronic components are made differently for various heat environments, and as long as all the components of that circuitry were specified for that temperature range, then there shouldn't be any problem. He actually said that if he had the schematic with all the various components labeled that he could look the components up to find out their heat range spec's. That would answer for sure whether a tri-spark is made with the proper components to withstand the heat. Long story short, There are special heat resistant components to make circuitry that withstands different heat ranges, and you would have to know Tri-sparks component list to know for sure they use appropriate components or not...

TriSpark lists the working heat range at -4F to 212F (-20 to 100C). That would be for a perfect sample.

A car coolant thermostat opens circa 85*C so not much leeway even on that application.

What temp does an air cooled engine run at ?

Sounds like a Trispark may not cope with global warming very well .. Lol

The head gets well over 350F degrees according to Jim Schmidt, and I would think the shit traffic situation I ran into in 90F degree air temp put the heat inside that points cover at or higher than the max 212F spec. If I think about it too much, I question my sanity buying and installing another one.

If it helps your sanity … in all likelihood the “ chip “ components used by one EI company will be the same ones used by all the others.

Grandad said:

If it helps your sanity … in all likelihood the “ chip “ components used by one EI company will be the same ones used by all the others.

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I would doubt it. I would suggest that Tri Spark have chosen chips designed to cope with the heat. Other manufacturers, using remote black boxes, would have no need to do this.

Also highly possible the unit I had previously was not up to spec and snuck out the door. It happens and I know heat sent it on a downward spiral to its death.

Speaking of remote EI smarts boxes that sit in a cooler location and a look toward the future. I have a Boyer, but will probably get a Pazon, because they look easier to static time than the Boyer, and recommended by Matt at cNw as an alternative to the TriSpark.

Will also be ordering a Rick's Motorsport rec/rect that is designed to support lithium batteries. The TriSpark MOSFET reg/rect works OK, but does not regulate on the high side near 14V 100% of the time.

Yesterday I installed a used 2 wire stator I got from Greg Marsh 3 years back. It is a 16 amp Lucas stator. I'll be testing to see if it is any better than my 50 year old stator today. I think it might produce a couple more amps, possibly as much as 6 more amps if the old stator was pre-Commando 10 amp stock spec.

Side Note: Anyone trying to learn me about electronics should know I worked in California's Silicon Valley for 20 years. Almost 15 years of that was at Apple Computer with people that designed computer software and hardware that changed the world. Point is I understand electrical components and how to wire a simple motorcycle. That doesn't mean I'm not missing something. For example, maybe I should wear a tinfoil beanie under my helmet.

I read this thread a few days ago. Probably a good thing.

I've had a Tri-Spark on my '73 Commando for a few years now. Has always worked fine, although this starts with a lazy half kick first time everytime stuff has never been the case with me.

Anyway, today running down the highway at 4K RPMs in 4th gear for a couple hours (ambiemt temps low 80s F), all of a sudden I got a few loud bangs out of the exhaust and felt like I was running out of fuel. Quickly turned on the reserve but that wasn't it. Pulled over and let it cool for a while (20 minutes, ish) and it started right up. Ran another maybe five miles and repeated. This time I took the points cover off and left it off. Kept the revs and speed down somewhat the rest of the trip and between that and the open points cavity had no further problems.

So my seat of the pants diagnosis is the Tri-Spark was overheating.

Welcome any inputs, including whether newer versions of the Tri-Spark are less prone to this. I'll ping Matt Rambow too (Matt if you're reading this please chime in) - got the unit from him, plus Matt is always both knowledgeable and happy to help.

Again, any inputs welcome. I'm thinking I will in any event ventilate the points cover but hoping for additional help.

BTW, while pulled over those two times, both times folks stopped to try to help. THAT is what the biker wave means to me - you don't leave a fellow motorcyclist by the side of the road.

Thanks folks - B

BrianK said:

I read this thread a few days ago. Probably a good thing.

So my seat of the pants diagnosis is the Tri-Spark was overheating.

Welcome any inputs, including whether newer versions of the Tri-Spark are less prone to this. I'll ping Matt Rambow too (Matt if you're reading this please chime in) - got the unit from him, plus Matt is always both knowledgeable and happy to help.

Again, any inputs welcome. I'm thinking I will in any event ventilate the points cover but hoping for additional help.

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I talked to Matt via email about it. I was going to buy another one from him, but didn't need his full kit, so sourced elsewhere, not Greg though. Matt said it has happened, but rarely and he always uses TriSpark in his Norton builds. He also suggested Pazon as an alternative.

My seat of the pants meter regarding this issue that is not supposed to ever happen says it will eventually not recover when cooled down if it is an 0005B and ridden in the heat a couple more times. That's based on my experience not BS.

I've only been on one test ride for 9 miles since installing the 0006 version. Obviously not enough of a ride to hurt anything. It is amazing how well the ignition works when brand new. My engine is much smoother running and it is solid mounted. Since I prefer to ride on clear sunny days, I'm considering carrying a spare. TriSpark sells the 0006 unit without any hardware for $220US.

My modified points cover does help cool the TriSpark. The points cover is definitely cooler than the rest of the timing side cover. Fair weather riding only though with the holes in it.

Nice to hear that some have many troublefree years with a Trispark,
but how many km/miles?
1000, 10 000, 100 000 ?
I had one of the first version, and took every possible precaution against overheating:
vented cover, heat shield, even added cooling fins.
Ran fine for a while ( 5000 km? ) then gave up.
It would always start again after cooling down and do another 10 - 20 km or so.
Kenny offered me an 'improved' version if I laid up 70$.
mm.. not my idea of a warranty, so I declined the offer.
I would like to hear if someone has done more than, say, 20 000 miles or more on a Trispark.

After my first one failed I carried a spare unit. The third one the rear tire lasted longer than it. Did. That time i rode the bike 15 miles and stopped at a store for some stuff , came back out and it would not start . Put in the spare and finished my ride and done with tri spark. Sold it that day and installed a boyer micro digital and haven’t looked back.

bill said:

After my first one failed I carried a spare unit. The third one the rear tire lasted longer than it. Did. That time i rode the bike 15 miles and stopped at a store for some stuff , came back out and it would not start . Put in the spare and finished my ride and done with tri spark. Sold it that day and installed a boyer micro digital and haven’t looked back.

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3 of them, Yikes!!

Too bad installing the Boyer isn't a simple roadside swap. The Boyer MkIV I have in a box. Maybe I should just get ahead of the inevitable failure curve so to speak and replace the new one before I get stuck on the side of the road wishing I had replaced it. Are we having fun yet?

I may have gotten 3K miles out of the first TriSpark Classic Twin ignition, and it actually started acting up right away with inconsistent mild misfires. When mine crapped out it was big misfires and bucking, then total death. My belief is if they start to misfire, they will fail entirely eventually. The max heat spec of 212F is not high enough for the application on my Norton and apparently others.

There are other early warning signs of impending doom with this ignition, but they are warm weather, long ride related and easily misinterpreted as carburetion problems.

One thing I did get out of misinterpreting and chasing all the misfiring is perfect running carburetion with a good ignition.