Replacement ignitions

MikeG said:
Well then I can tell you on even a short ride, Gettysburg Pa to Shady Valley TN in one day, my stator gave out so battery power only. A quick battery swap with Concours (his charging system was OK and able to charge my battery up) and off we rode. Did about 300 miles without needing to swap batteries again. Coil and points ignition would have run the battery down enough to sideline the trip long before we reached Shady Valley. I run an Olde Britts Powerarc and love it.
Click to expand...
I've done thousands of miles dead loss with points and coils on the Vin.
The first experience was when my original Miller generator lost its windings about 400 miles from home. We came home on dead loss ignition. My riding buddy charged my battery a couple of times with some very light jumper cables that he carried.
I replaced the Miller with a new three phase Alton. That failed on a day trip, about 150 miles from home. We made it home on the battery, which was a 14 ah, iirc.
The 3 phase Alton was replaced with a new single phase Alton which had an internal transmission complete with plastic gears.
The Alton lasted about 5,000 miles when it failed in Eastern BC near the Alberta border, about 500 miles from home. So it was dead loss to home again. I was getting quite used to this!
Alton sent me a new set of gears and that lasted another 3000 miles or so. That failure was local, just a few miles from home.
The Alton was replaced with a new single phase direct drive Alton, the same type that is produced now. That worked well for 20,000 miles or so, but I was an early adopter of Lithium battery technology. The new Lithium battery melted in Nevada City, California, about 1800 miles from home. It destroyed the Alton and the regulator.
I bought a 14 ah lead acid battery, a battery charger and an extension cord. We charged the battery at night and then ran dead loss for 300 to 400 miles per day. I would check voltage at fuel ups to see how we were doing. The bike ran fine on points right down to 10 volts or so. On the 400 mile day we managed to charge a bit at lunch time.
I replaced the Alton with a new unit of the same type and haven't had to run dead loss since.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
I've done thousands of miles dead loss with points and coils on the Vin.
The first experience was when my original Miller generator lost its windings about 400 miles from home. We came home on dead loss ignition. My riding buddy charged my battery a couple of times with some very light jumper cables that he carried.
I replaced the Miller with a new three phase Alton. That failed on a day trip, about 150 miles from home. We made it home on the battery, which was a 14 ah, iirc.
The 3 phase Alton was replaced with a new single phase Alton which had an internal transmission complete with plastic gears.
The Alton lasted about 5,000 miles when it failed in Eastern BC near the Alberta border, about 500 miles from home. So it was dead loss to home again. I was getting quite used to this!
Alton sent me a new set of gears and that lasted another 3000 miles or so. That failure was local, just a few miles from home.
The Alton was replaced with a new single phase direct drive Alton, the same type that is produced now. That worked well for 20,000 miles or so, but I was an early adopter of Lithium battery technology. The new Lithium battery melted in Nevada City, California, about 1800 miles from home. It destroyed the Alton and the regulator.
I bought a 14 ah lead acid battery, a battery charger and an extension cord. We charged the battery at night and then ran dead loss for 300 to 400 miles per day. I would check voltage at fuel ups to see how we were doing. The bike ran fine on points right down to 10 volts or so. On the 400 mile day we managed to charge a bit at lunch time.
I replaced the Alton with a new unit of the same type and haven't had to run dead loss since.

Glen
Click to expand...
Glen,
Serious question…
With such experiences you’ve had, and the use you have of the bike, why not fit a mag ?
 
The Boyers I have used have been very good, I did come up with a great way to stop the Stator plate wires from breaking, so they have been great. And even with the normal large voltage drop when used on E start bikes they fire up, no problem. But the best feature is they are easily warrantied by my parts supplier Coventry Spares in the USA. John Healey has the test equipment to test the components and does the warrantee for problems with the whole Boyer product line. Try that with a Pazon or other brands. Last I knew Pazon wanted you to send your Pazon to them in NZ. That is very costly and time consuming and a long wait for results.
But Most problems are caused by the installer or other problems with the bike they are installed on. So, it's no fault of the Boyer to begin with.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Glen,
Serious question…
With such experiences you’ve had, and the use you have of the bike, why not fit a mag ?
Click to expand...
I have considered that, however the points coil ignition has been flawless. My problems have mainly been due to the charging systems, which were evolving.
Alton seems to have a near bullet proof Alternator design now.
Quite a number of the local Vincents do use the original Magnetos. I believe all have been rebuilt at least once, but the bikes are often hard starting on warm restart. Many are going to e start systems to help with that.
The Norton Commando points coil arrangement gives very easy starting.
I can't imagine ever needing e start on the bike.

 
worntorn said:
I have considered that, however the points coil ignition has been flawless. My problems have mainly been due to the charging systems, which were evolving.
Alton seems to have a near bullet proof Alternator design now.
Quite a number of the local Vincents do use the original Magnetos. I believe all have been rebuilt at least once, but the bikes are often hard starting on warm restart. Many are going to e start systems to help with that.
The Norton Commando points coil arrangement gives very easy starting.
I can't imagine ever needing e start on the bike.

Click to expand...

OK .. That's just plain showing off 😏
 
worntorn said:
I've done thousands of miles dead loss with points and coils on the Vin.
The first experience was when my original Miller generator lost its windings about 400 miles from home. We came home on dead loss ignition. My riding buddy charged my battery a couple of times with some very light jumper cables that he carried.
I replaced the Miller with a new three phase Alton. That failed on a day trip, about 150 miles from home. We made it home on the battery, which was a 14 ah, iirc.
The 3 phase Alton was replaced with a new single phase Alton which had an internal transmission complete with plastic gears.
The Alton lasted about 5,000 miles when it failed in Eastern BC near the Alberta border, about 500 miles from home. So it was dead loss to home again. I was getting quite used to this!
Alton sent me a new set of gears and that lasted another 3000 miles or so. That failure was local, just a few miles from home.
The Alton was replaced with a new single phase direct drive Alton, the same type that is produced now. That worked well for 20,000 miles or so, but I was an early adopter of Lithium battery technology. The new Lithium battery melted in Nevada City, California, about 1800 miles from home. It destroyed the Alton and the regulator.
I bought a 14 ah lead acid battery, a battery charger and an extension cord. We charged the battery at night and then ran dead loss for 300 to 400 miles per day. I would check voltage at fuel ups to see how we were doing. The bike ran fine on points right down to 10 volts or so. On the 400 mile day we managed to charge a bit at lunch time.
I replaced the Alton with a new unit of the same type and haven't had to run dead loss since.

Glen
Click to expand...
We're you running any lights at all? I could shut the headlamp off but my tail lamp is on with the key. Never checked voltage at our destination but I had a bright headlight upon arrival.
 
worntorn said:
I have considered that, however the points coil ignition has been flawless. My problems have mainly been due to the charging systems, which were evolving.
Alton seems to have a near bullet proof Alternator design now.
Quite a number of the local Vincents do use the original Magnetos. I believe all have been rebuilt at least once, but the bikes are often hard starting on warm restart. Many are going to e start systems to help with that.
The Norton Commando points coil arrangement gives very easy starting.
I can't imagine ever needing e start on the bike.

Click to expand...

Can’t argue with that !
 
worntorn said:
I have considered that, however the points coil ignition has been flawless. My problems have mainly been due to the charging systems, which were evolving.
Alton seems to have a near bullet proof Alternator design now.
Quite a number of the local Vincents do use the original Magnetos. I believe all have been rebuilt at least once, but the bikes are often hard starting on warm restart. Many are going to e start systems to help with that.
The Norton Commando points coil arrangement gives very easy starting.
I can't imagine ever needing e start on the bike.

Click to expand...

I'm about 215lbs and it takes my entire weight and good timing to get my commando over top dead center. God help you if it kicks back from being lean.... The way you casually start your bike bears no resemblance to anything that would work on my commando. Perhaps the compression of each bike and the gearing of their respective kick start levers are so far apart in their ratios that it makes the dramatic difference in effort needed for each, but watching you kick that bike so casually makes me think that a commando kick start mechanism is at it's limit on a high compression 750 or 850 where as the Vincent engineers got the kickstart gearing right where you want it.... Starts every time without busting a hip or knee joint laying into it with everything you got!...
 
Last edited:
Ron Hulton said:
o0norton0o said:
I'm about 215lbs and it takes my entire weight and good timing to get my commando over top dead center. God help you if it kicks back from being lean.... The way you casually start your bike bears no resemblance to anything that would work on my commando. Perhaps the compression of each bike and the gearing of their respective kick start levers are so far apart in their ratios that it makes the dramatic difference in effort needed for each, but watching you kick that bike so casually makes me think that a commando kick start mechanism is at it's limit on a high compression 750 or 850 where as the Vincent engineers got the kickstart gearing right where you want it.... Starts every time without busting a hip or knee joint laying into it with everything you got!...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It's an excellent kicker design on the Vincent but the compression release is probably the biggest factor for ease of starting.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
I've done thousands of miles dead loss with points and coils on the Vin.
The first experience was when my original Miller generator lost its windings about 400 miles from home. We came home on dead loss ignition. My riding buddy charged my battery a couple of times with some very light jumper cables that he carried.
I replaced the Miller with a new three phase Alton. That failed on a day trip, about 150 miles from home. We made it home on the battery, which was a 14 ah, iirc.
The 3 phase Alton was replaced with a new single phase Alton which had an internal transmission complete with plastic gears.
The Alton lasted about 5,000 miles when it failed in Eastern BC near the Alberta border, about 500 miles from home. So it was dead loss to home again. I was getting quite used to this!
Alton sent me a new set of gears and that lasted another 3000 miles or so. That failure was local, just a few miles from home.
The Alton was replaced with a new single phase direct drive Alton, the same type that is produced now. That worked well for 20,000 miles or so, but I was an early adopter of Lithium battery technology. The new Lithium battery melted in Nevada City, California, about 1800 miles from home. It destroyed the Alton and the regulator.
I bought a 14 ah lead acid battery, a battery charger and an extension cord. We charged the battery at night and then ran dead loss for 300 to 400 miles per day. I would check voltage at fuel ups to see how we were doing. The bike ran fine on points right down to 10 volts or so. On the 400 mile day we managed to charge a bit at lunch time.
I replaced the Alton with a new unit of the same type and haven't had to run dead loss since.

Glen
Click to expand...
In your post you mention running on "dead loss" several times. Is this when you're running on what voltage is left in your battery when your charging system has failed? If not, what does it mean?
 
MikeG said:
We're you running any lights at all? I could shut the headlamp off but my tail lamp is on with the key. Never checked voltage at our destination but I had a bright headlight upon arrival.
Click to expand...
Only once for a minute when we spotted a police radar trap. We were in a State which requires motorcycles to run lights in daytime.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
Only once for a minute when we spotted a police radar trap. We were in a State which requires motorcycles to run lights in daytime.

Glen
Click to expand...
I had watched Mike's headlight in the mirror, go from white, to yellow, to brown, then he wasn't there. It made diagnosis easy, confirmed with a miniature DMM.
 
concours said:
I had watched Mike's headlight in the mirror, go from white, to yellow, to brown, then he wasn't there. It made diagnosis easy, confirmed with a miniature DMM.
Click to expand...
Bob,
DMM=digital multi-meter?. Correct?
Thanks,Mike
 

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