Replacement ignitions

Actually, he would have used the cigarette paper to set TIMING.šŸ’”
A matchbook cover or business card would have been used to set points gap. šŸ
The paper is freed from the grasp of the points. The 1960's all over again.
 
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worntorn, your post is reassuring for those of us (me) that tends to want to just to retain the original points ignition. I wouldn't have a problem with going to an aftermarket ignition if the original points set-up was problem prone, but not necessarily just because there is a more modern alternative. That's what I was trying to determine when I started this thread, if the points system is problematic.
Points require MANY more components/connections and require more knowledge than EI systems. For those who understand them, points are fine. Many can't chase a simple electrical problem, and many don't have a clue about how points work, condensers, the ballast resistor, the AAU, and so on, so a EI like Tri-Spark is the answer.
 
Not bad mouthing any product but I think my next purchase will be a Pazon. Had Boyer and they work but not what I call performance ignition. Tri spark working good on MK III. Something wrong with Tri Spark on my Hot Rod a lot of electronic interference.
 
Points require MANY more components/connections and require more knowledge than EI systems. For those who understand them, points are fine. Many can't chase a simple electrical problem, and many don't have a clue about how points work, condensers, the ballast resistor, the AAU, and so on, so a EI like Tri-Spark is the answer.
Greg Glad to see your back!
 
worntorn, your post is reassuring for those of us (me) that tends to want to just to retain the original points ignition. I wouldn't have a problem with going to an aftermarket ignition if the original points set-up was problem prone, but not necessarily just because there is a more modern alternative. That's what I was trying to determine when I started this thread, if the points system is problematic.

Points require MANY more components/connections and require more knowledge than EI systems. For those who understand them, points are fine. Many can't chase a simple electrical problem, and many don't have a clue about how points work, condensers, the ballast resistor, the AAU, and so on, so a EI like Tri-Spark is the answer.
Hey Greg!
Good to read you again.
 
Points require MANY more components/connections and require more knowledge than EI systems. For those who understand them, points are fine. Many can't chase a simple electrical problem, and many don't have a clue about how points work, condensers, the ballast resistor, the AAU, and so on, so a EI like Tri-Spark is the answer.
In my case, on my Bonneville, it wasn't the points themselves which were the problem, it was the auto advance unit. It was sticking, and no amount of cleaning, checking, filing etc. made any difference. Another secondhand one was no better, so gave up and followed the Pazon route.
 
Is it time for some of that first kick magneto talk from down under?
I wasn't going to say anything here about what way to go with ignition systems but having my Norton since new, the first few years I ran stock point without any problems then after about 3 years started to have lots of problems with points as well condensers then a failed AAU, so in 78 I decided to put in a Lucas EI, it failed in one year of running so 79 I replaced it with a Boyar EI then after the rebuild/conversion to the Featherbed frame I had a major fire in 82 and a week after the fire (after fixing the fire damage) the Boyar black box failed 100 mile from home (fire damaged) so I replace it with another Boyar EI and had 30 + years of trouble free with that Boyar (it was still working when I replaced it), it always started first or second kick but over that time a few battery failures that left me out of action.
I ran a Joe Hunt magneto on my old 1981 Triumph Thunderbird for over 9 years without any troubles and not relying on battery power so saved and decided to go with a new 4 rare earth Joe Hunt magneto for the Norton, it has so far been the best ignition I have ever run on my Norton and over 13+ years now and gone back to my old Amal carbs my Norton has run the best it ever has in the 48+ years of ownership, the JH and Amals run so well together and I haven't touched the JH in all them years except a new front cover from a lay down, the good thing with the JH it one unit and no need for a big battery or any battery really for running, I run my very small dirt bike battery just to have bright lights when needed, mostly for a brighter brake light as I don't run my lights during day time.
Anyway we all have our chosen ignitions systems and all work with different results, stock points work well when they are set up right and kept up with maintenance, EI work great with no maintenance at all, but when they do fail they will leave you standard somewhere and they can fail without warning as my first 2 did, but the first Boyar was not the fault of the Boyar.
There are so many different way to go to power our Norton's these day, it depends in what you want as well how much you are willing to do as maintenance goes as stock ignition system you need to know how to keep them maintained and if you not very good at working on your bike they can be trouble some, EI ignitions if set up right they can be trouble free for many years of riding, but they can fail and leave you standard, even magnetos can stop you, nothing is perfect and can cause problems, as others have said there are a lot of knock off replacement parts that fail or not up to scratch, EI are cheap to buy and work well when they are working, but they need a good reliable power source, stock points will get you home if your battery fails if you are running a copastor in your wiring system.
As for myself the Joe Hunt work so well for my set up and always fires up on first kick every time even after sitting for a few months, if you run points or EI no one will ever know and as you know there aren't too many Commandos that haven't had some modern upgrades from stock, you wouldn't know by looking at them, and by the way you have change your Norton, just set it up for yourself and enjoy the ride, who really cares if its stock or not.

Ashley
 
I wasn't going to say anything here about what way to go with ignition systems but having my Norton since new, the first few years I ran stock point without any problems then after about 3 years started to have lots of problems with points as well condensers then a failed AAU, so in 78 I decided to put in a Lucas EI, it failed in one year of running so 79 I replaced it with a Boyar EI then after the rebuild/conversion to the Featherbed frame I had a major fire in 82 and a week after the fire (after fixing the fire damage) the Boyar black box failed 100 mile from home (fire damaged) so I replace it with another Boyar EI and had 30 + years of trouble free with that Boyar (it was still working when I replaced it), it always started first or second kick but over that time a few battery failures that left me out of action.
I ran a Joe Hunt magneto on my old 1981 Triumph Thunderbird for over 9 years without any troubles and not relying on battery power so saved and decided to go with a new 4 rare earth Joe Hunt magneto for the Norton, it has so far been the best ignition I have ever run on my Norton and over 13+ years now and gone back to my old Amal carbs my Norton has run the best it ever has in the 48+ years of ownership, the JH and Amals run so well together and I haven't touched the JH in all them years except a new front cover from a lay down, the good thing with the JH it one unit and no need for a big battery or any battery really for running, I run my very small dirt bike battery just to have bright lights when needed, mostly for a brighter brake light as I don't run my lights during day time.
Anyway we all have our chosen ignitions systems and all work with different results, stock points work well when they are set up right and kept up with maintenance, EI work great with no maintenance at all, but when they do fail they will leave you standard somewhere and they can fail without warning as my first 2 did, but the first Boyar was not the fault of the Boyar.
There are so many different way to go to power our Norton's these day, it depends in what you want as well how much you are willing to do as maintenance goes as stock ignition system you need to know how to keep them maintained and if you not very good at working on your bike they can be trouble some, EI ignitions if set up right they can be trouble free for many years of riding, but they can fail and leave you standard, even magnetos can stop you, nothing is perfect and can cause problems, as others have said there are a lot of knock off replacement parts that fail or not up to scratch, EI are cheap to buy and work well when they are working, but they need a good reliable power source, stock points will get you home if your battery fails if you are running a copastor in your wiring system.
As for myself the Joe Hunt work so well for my set up and always fires up on first kick every time even after sitting for a few months, if you run points or EI no one will ever know and as you know there aren't too many Commandos that haven't had some modern upgrades from stock, you wouldn't know by looking at them, and by the way you have change your Norton, just set it up for yourself and enjoy the ride, who really cares if its stock or not.

Ashley
Well, that was lengthy.
 
Quawk in his original question asked two questions and the answer to both is

ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦. Yes ā€¦ā€¦

Which still leaves it all wide open !!

EI is the ā€œ dogs ā€œ for many reasons

Points are also the ā€œ dogs ā€œ for many reasons ā€¦.

ā€¦. Well they used to be years back when quality parts were available !

Back in the day one would fit new points on a bike or car and ( if you were handy and had some reasonable idea of how things worked ) would after a few hundred miles or so check and reset the points ā€œ gap ā€œ to compensate for the initial wearing down of the ā€œ fibre heel ā€œ and once done the points would then be SAFELY forgotten about until the next circa 6k service interval came up.
No further issues would be found !
Trouble is these days ( many recent years) it isnā€™t possible to buy decent points !!!! Same with condensers !!!
so you tend to fall foul of inferior products !
My own 1950ā€™s Land Rover running on points is no issue to me as I have a decent stock of NOS points and condensers and coils so in a smug way Iā€™m alright jack !
Trouble is not everyone has my luxury and when quality parts are not available to buy then other alternatives are needed ā€¦. ie. EI !!!ā€™

Actually I like EI and am a FAN !!!

First experience was on my BMW R80 back in the day got converted to Lumention and it made every day like Christmas !!!!
Smoother crisper etc etc and it never needed adjustment ! MPG better and less carb adjustments / fiddling needed to compensate etc etc

Love points yet I love EI !!

Moral is you use whatā€™s suits your circumstances !
 
I wasn't going to say anything here about what way to go with ignition systems but

Ashley
Yeah, but you wanted to... Mission accomplished. šŸ‘

I almost put a good working albeit old as heck K2F back on, but if it aint broke don't fix it... yet.
 
I put in the Vape-Wassell EI when I acquired my 850 Commando...i didnt want the added unknown of the points and associated components to jave to troubleshoot and learn about when also dealing with classic bike carbs, electrics, wheels/brakes etc , also new to me. Set the EI, strobed it and bike has now done 20k miles in 7 riding seasons without any changes at all.
 
Yeah, but you wanted to... Mission accomplished. šŸ‘

I almost put a good working albeit old as heck K2F back on, but if it aint broke don't fix it... yet.
Well everyone has their opinions on what to use and after 48+ years I have ran with them all except for the new modern EI and as I say they all have their problems, some minor and others complete failures and other with no problems at all with long life, I never had any problems with my old Boyar except for the fire damaged one, but now running with a new Joe Hunt magneto, not everyone's cup of tea but my choice as well hard to give an opinion without history.
Run with whatever you want that suites your needs as I have and there are so many options these days compared to back in the 70s.

Ashley
 
Well everyone has their opinions on what to use and after 48+ years I have ran with them all except for the new modern EI and as I say they all have their problems, some minor and others complete failures and other with no problems at all with long life, I never had any problems with my old Boyar except for the fire damaged one, but now running with a new Joe Hunt magneto, not everyone's cup of tea but my choice as well hard to give an opinion without history.
Run with whatever you want that suites your needs as I have and there are so many options these days compared to back in the 70s.

Ashley
Must agree that there is a cornucopia of goodies out there for the Norton engine today that were not available in the 70's.

51 years with a Norton in the garage myself. I started with a K2F magneto ignition, then points and coils, then Boyer MkIII, then a Boyer MkIV, now on my second TriSpark. The Boyers worked fine. The MkIII kicked back some, so I replaced it with the MkIV. The second TriSpark will be my last TriSpark if it craps out on me. It seems OK currently. I actually liked the advance curve of the Boyer a lot, but the better idle with better carburetion using a TriSpark ignition is a nice setup.

I think the OP should do whatever he feels like doing.
 
I like the Boyer. I just set it. and then tune the carburetors to get the best out of it. It never changes. I use a double-ended coil so have minimum connections. I have a cut-out switch which can be bypassed. If I dropped the bike when the switch was by-passed, I would just pull the wires to stop the motor. The connectors would separate.
 
On the T250 Suzuki I built, I used the EI from a 6 cylinder Valiant. It had a ballast resistor. It easily delivered sufficient sparks. I just removed 4 trigger points off the rotor, and a double ended coil.
 
As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.
Well then I can tell you on even a short ride, Gettysburg Pa to Shady Valley TN in one day, my stator gave out so battery power only. A quick battery swap with Concours (his charging system was OK and able to charge my battery up) and off we rode. Did about 300 miles without needing to swap batteries again. Coil and points ignition would have run the battery down enough to sideline the trip long before we reached Shady Valley. I run an Olde Britts Powerarc and love it.
 
Well then I can tell you on even a short ride, Gettysburg Pa to Shady Valley TN in one day, my stator gave out so battery power only. A quick battery swap with Concours (his charging system was OK and able to charge my battery up) and off we rode. Did about 300 miles without needing to swap batteries again. Coil and points ignition would have run the battery down enough to sideline the trip long before we reached Shady Valley. I run an Olde Britts Powerarc and love it.
When I had road bikes, they always had magnetos. Even then, I once dropped a bike on a slippery road and the magneto stopped working. I like rotating magnet magnetos which have the capacitor external. The Lucas SR type is good and cheap.
 
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