Wheel rim replacement

Mart UK said:

Knut, I didn't find it too difficult. The Commando front was the first one I attempted. Just take it slow, make sure the correct hub holes are used for the correct rim holes, build it loose and get it true, with the right offset, before the nipples are anywhere near tight.

I don't have a truing stand. I laced the wheel on a flat surface, with the rim resting on 2 pieces of wood, to set an initial offset. With all the spokes in, I used an axle in the soft jaws of my bench vice, with a ruler flat on the work bench. I used the ruler to check and true side to side and up and down trueness.

For me, the key was getting it true and maintaining the offset while the nipples were still not tight, with only small tightening turns each time. Then I did tiny turns of the nipples each rotation, constantly checking trueness / offset. Took me a couple of hours, maybe more, but the radio was on and it was a pleasant afternoon. I've replaced a Honda rear hub and drum since with the same approach.

I'm patient-ish, no mechanic though. If I can do it, most people should be able to, if you want to, of course!

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Good to hear information. I sold my combination balancing/truing stand a while back and went back to my homemade balancing method. Long ago I made a set of balancing rollers from rollerblade bearings, mounted to small pieces of angle iron mounted to short lengths of 2x4. Used to set them up on a couple of saw horses, but now set them up on the sides of the dropout panel in my lift table. It works just about perfect as the tire/wheel occupies the space where the dropout panel is removed from and you can lift or lower the table to a comfortable height. I feel I'll be able to "McGyver" something to true the wheel, as you did, I'm patient, as you are, and will take my time. One plus of being retired is I'm not on a schedule and don't have to be in a hurry anymore. Something I haven't thought of or investigated was the offset that you speak of. I'll have to look into that.

Offset for my Mk3 (LH brake disc) will be different to earlier bikes. @LAB gave me the correct info IIRC, he definitely did regarding the correct rim dimple pattern.

Since wheel to hub offset has been mentioned, can someone tell me what, if any, the offset for my 1973 Hi-Rider 750 should be?

CWC rims can be hard to lace. As stated above they make them to save money not for ease of lacing. As a rule they don't lace same as originals. Check with Donald Pender, price and quality are quite acceptable.

mikeinidaho said:

I used stainless steel rims, from feked.com (in the UK). Price was reasonable, shipping was fairly quick. Laced them up with Buchanan stainless spokes.

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Can I ask why, if you bought your spokes from Buchanan, you didn't get your rims from them also? Was it cost?

quawk said:

I appreciate all the responses, and info. As expected there are many different viewpoints and opinions on what/which to use. Although it's nice to have a good number of vendors to choose from, it also makes it more confusing, especially for a first timer, to make a selection.

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As I commented to you in another thread, own/ride your bike for a bit before making big changes (such as new wheels).
As has been discussed just in this thread there are a LOT of interrelated variables to consider. Sometimes an uninformed
choice today affects a change you might want to make in the future. The devil is in the details. I don't recall the year,
but if your bike has a disc brake, find out of it works effectively. If not, upgrade it by either sleeving the M/C, buying
a new one from A/N or seriously consider a modern braking system that works. THEN integrate that choice into new wheels.

Quawk, the brochure on the CWC website describes their three chrome rims for classic bikes:
British Chrome, Elite Chrome, and Standard Chrome.

quawk said:

Unfortunately, those are 40+ years ago prices.

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I know they are 40 year prices but my point is alloy will out last the bike or yourself unless you crash it badly, steel rims can have a lot of problems with corrosion, chrome lifting etc, I have done no real maintenance on my Alloy rims in the 40 years of owning them, once a year I will give them a light polish same time I do the rest of the bike, and the alloy are lighter than steel and the bike will feel a lot better in the corners and in my opinion they look better as well.
Wheels aren't cheap no matter what way you go these days, I may have only paid $90 each for my alloy rims back in the day but $90 then wasn't cheap, but I do like telling everyone how much they cost back then.

Ashley

ashman said:

I put a set of Akront alloy rims on my Norton (1974 Commando) back in 1982 and they still look as good as the day they were put together and the best part only cost $90 each at the time and $40 for new spokes, they are maintenance free and have always stayed clean with normal bike cleaning, they don't rust out and the bike handles a lot better than with steel rims, I brought my Norton new and the chrome on the back wheel was lifting less than 12 months old and was replace on warranty and the front one did the same about 6 months later and the warranty had run out.
My first job after leaving school was working at a chrome shop and looked like the rims hadn't been prepared properly before chroming, all my bikes have alloy rims and they look better than the steel rims in my opinion.

Ashley

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When you mentioned having a chrome problem on your rims and one of them was replaced under warranty as you had purchased your bike new, can I ask how long the new bike warranty was at that time and just what all was covered?

12 months warranty was all you got first 6months was labor and parts and the last 6 months was just parts not very good at all should have been a lot more as in the same 8 months I also had the dreaded oil tank mount leak and crack in the oil tank, I told them where the oil was leaking from and when I went to pick my Norton up the hit me with 3 hours + labor charged me, they told me it took them a lot of time to trace and find the leak after I told them where it was leaking from and I was so angry with them after I disputed their cost, but I had to pay up to get my bike, then they had the hide to say see up for your next service where I told them it be the last time they see my bike in the workshop and they never did after that.
But I got revenge on them as I become good mate with the spare parts guy and he gave me lots of parts with just a little bit of money slipped over the counter for his own pocket and I did pretty good with that under the counter deals.
I paid $1999 on the road for my new Norton in 1976, it was an old new stock 74 Roadster sitting in the back behind all the new 75 Commandos they were $2,450 on the road at the time.
In them days wages were only about $55 a week, I was 17 years old and I got my first loan for $1100 to buy the Norton I had the rest and I paid it off fully in 11months time, not bad for a young lad.

Ashley

ashman said:

12 months warranty was all you got first 6months was labor and parts and the last 6 months was just parts not very good at all should have been a lot more as in the same 8 months I also had the dreaded oil tank mount leak and crack in the oil tank, I told them where the oil was leaking from and when I went to pick my Norton up the hit me with 3 hours + labor charged me, they told me it took them a lot of time to trace and find the leak after I told them where it was leaking from and I was so angry with them after I disputed their cost, but I had to pay up to get my bike, then they had the hide to say see up for your next service where I told them it be the last time they see my bike in the workshop and they never did after that.
But I got revenge on them as I become good mate with the spare parts guy and he gave me lots of parts with just a little bit of money slipped over the counter for his own pocket and I did pretty good with that under the counter deals.
I paid $1999 on the road for my new Norton in 1976, it was an old new stock 74 Roadster sitting in the back behind all the new 75 Commandos they were $2,450 on the road at the time.
In them days wages were only about $55 a week, I was 17 years old and I got my first loan for $1100 to buy the Norton I had the rest and I paid it off fully in 11months time, not bad for a young lad.

Ashley

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As I have mentioned in earlier posts, we have a small mom and pop bike shop not far from me, in our little rural county, that was open clear back in the late 60's and early 70's and sold Nortons during the times of production of Commandos. I'm not sure exactly the time line, but he had sold BSA, then Triumph, then Norton as the earlier brands ceased production. I think that's where my admiration of the Brit bikes comes from, walking into his shop and seeing some of the bright, shiny new English made beauties. Americans were still somewhat resistant to the coming of the Japanese brands. After Norton ceased, he then sold Moto Guzzi. I can only assume that those brands allowed a dealer to invest in a relatively small inventory of new bikes each year as he was a very small shop and probably didn't sell many new bikes in a year's time. Surprisingly, his shop is still there and he is still open, although I believe at this point, all his business consists of is selling parts, I would guess primarily to old customers from the past that try to patronize him out of loyalty. He no longer sells new bikes, or has a mechanic(s) doing service or repair work. I would also guess the reason he is still there and open is the fact that his shop sits on part of a small farm, and that the farm income subsidises the shop. I've not been to his shop in quite a few years, but am trying to think of an excuse to stop in and chat with the owner. I have been thinking, ever since I purchased my Norton, that I now have that excuse. Unfortunately, internet sales put the "stake in the heart" so to speak of little shops like his.

Craig said:

I sent my hubs to Don Pender , he built me a set of shouldered alloy rims in original sizes … beautiful wheels , I don’t think any harder to keep clean than chrome …

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In a little research to find Don Pender, is his sales prescence tritonmotorcycleparts online and bikepender1 on Ebay? A little more research indicates he is in the Philippines. Is shipping excessively costly? I realize you mustn't have felt so if you ordered from him and also realize all shipping has become expensive.

I have dealt with him here:

quawk said:

In a little research to find Don Pender, is his sales prescence tritonmotorcycleparts online and bikepender1 on Ebay?

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Yes and in here goes by madass140. Send him a message, he's good to respond.

These are Stainless rims , spokes and nipples. IIRC they were supplied by Walridge Motors so I believe they are Central Wheel Components- not certain though . Very happy with them , no problems whatsoever.

I laced wheels back in the day. The Nortons and BMWs were relatively easy as we had specs for offset, spoke pattern and such. Then there was the oddballs like Sunbeam for which there were no specs available. I'd lace them up with no offset and do a trial fit. I was slow and I don't see how the boss made any money on these deals. We bought parts from Buchanan's and they would lace up wheels too for less than the boss paid me. Of course on some bikes you don't let precious hubs out of your sight.

We did use stainless spokes and nipples and Buchanan's would send us little bottles of a green lube and said it MUST be used or the nipples would sieze on the spokes. I've used that on other stainless fasteners too.

The Norton disc brake front wheel is one the most difficult to lace as the disk side spokes stand nearly vertical and so it is difficult to to pull the rim to that side .

quawk said:

In a little research to find Don Pender, is his sales prescence tritonmotorcycleparts online and bikepender1 on Ebay? A little more research indicates he is in the Philippines. Is shipping excessively costly? I realize you mustn't have felt so if you ordered from him and also realize all shipping has become expensive.

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Have done business with Don a number of times. His products are first rate as is his integrity. If you do a search on this site you will find many references and threads regarding his products. Shipping is quick and reasonable cost.

Richard Tool said:

The Norton disc brake front wheel is one the most difficult to lace as the disk side spokes stand nearly vertical and so it is difficult to to pull the rim to that side .

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My '73 has the drum brake, front and rear, which I intend to keep because I like the looks of the front drum. Twin leading shoes and the air scoop. Different from seeing the discs for so many years. I've asked in a previous post but got no response, does my front wheel have any offset to the hub since it's a drum brake?

Thomasa said:

I laced wheels back in the day. The Nortons and BMWs were relatively easy as we had specs for offset, spoke pattern and such. Then there was the oddballs like Sunbeam for which there were no specs available. I'd lace them up with no offset and do a trial fit. I was slow and I don't see how the boss made any money on these deals. We bought parts from Buchanan's and they would lace up wheels too for less than the boss paid me. Of course on some bikes you don't let precious hubs out of your sight.

We did use stainless spokes and nipples and Buchanan's would send us little bottles of a green lube and said it MUST be used or the nipples would sieze on the spokes. I've used that on other stainless fasteners too.

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Could I ask how long or how many years did you work as a bike mechanic? I see you're in the U.S. I respect your privacy but could I also ask what part of the country you're in? Also, when you were lacing up Norton wheels "back in the day" , were the rims usually replaced with chrome steel, stainless, or alloy? Were they usually being replaced from being bent, bad chrome (as one other poster had said he had trouble with), or did owners just want a different trype of rim?