Replacement ignitions

quawk said:

As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.

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You mean like riding a Norton Commando INTERSTATE from Chicago to San Fran and back again? In 5 days? Not me, but I know a couple of guys.... Nobody is going to drive a thousand miles in a day, much less ride that distance, not without drugs anyway.

Your question merited responses based on opinion and experience, and you received some sound information, "As you expected when you started this thread,"

I have fried, pitted, cooked and burned up a lot of points for all kinds of reasons, some my fault, some not.

Understanding your particular riding needs/habits are a good bit of guidance as to what you choose to make the gas go boom, use that as a guideline.
Your above response, to me anyway, reads like you have answered your own question.

quawk said:

As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.

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If you decide to stay with points it is very important to use original Lucas points. They are of very high quality. The Japanese replacement points failed in my bike at 300 miles.
The bike that I have done the most mileage with in recent years is a Vincent that is fitted with Norton Commando Lucas points and coils. I've done about 60,000 miles on it since 2003 and adjusted the points maybe 3 times, replaced them once. They have not been a big maintenance item.
It's also my easiest starting bike.

My other old Brit bikes have various ignitions, older analog Boyer EI, new Pazon Smart fire and original Lucas magneto.
They all work fine too, although those bikes have not done anywhere near the mileage that the points bike has done over that time.
I don't think ignition type matters very much, as long as it is in working condition.

Glen

I'll add that the original Lucas points are much higher in quality than the US made automotive points that I grew up using in the 60s and 70s.
Those needed a fair bit of fiddling and replacing all of the time in order to be at their best. The proper Lucas points do not require this constant fiddling.
The NOS Lucas are getting hard to find though.
I have three new pairs (6 points assemblies) set aside for the Vin. That should be enough to take it around the world many times.
There are new replacement points in Lucas boxes sold on Ebay. These points are very low in quality, not recommended.

Glen

Lineslinger said:

You mean like riding a Norton Commando INTERSTATE from Chicago to San Fran and back again? In 5 days? Not me, but I know a couple of guys.... Nobody is going to drive a thousand miles in a day, much less ride that distance, not without drugs anyway.

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This is exactly what I meant in my post. Yeah, there's always someone who remembers or knew so and so who did some sort of marathon ride. But that is the rare exception and not the norm.

Back in the day, when ALL vehicles used points, nobody paid any attention to them for thousands of miles. A typical "tuneup" back then was 10k miles. Some folks did them at 5000, gear heads (like me) did a tuneup at 3000 but it wasn't points that needed work, it was typically for new spark plugs!. For years my '71 Commando was my "daily driver" back/forth to work. I MAYBE checked/adjusted the points once a year but probably not that often. The idea that points need frequent service is incorrect; they do not. Or, at least, they did not back then. Oil changes and chain maintenance require far more attention (and time/effort) than points!

HOWEVER, it does seem to be true that points are typically of less quality now than they were then so a poor set may, indeed, require frequent replacement/service/adjustment. OTOH I know of one early '70's Honda 750 that is still running the ORIGINAL set of points. My '76 CB400F is running a set of replacements but they are NOS Honda. I haven't paid any attention to them since I Installed them 18+ months ago and the bike has around 6000 miles since then. FWIW, I rode it 600 miles in one day and no...the points didn't fail!

FWIW, I've had two aftermarket motorcycle EI's fail but the Trispark on my Commando, Installed in '08) has been bulletproof.

For a road bike points are probably better, because if you are a long way from home they can usually be more easily fixed, if there is a problem. My bike used to be road-raced often, and the Boyer has always been excellent. If I was going to develop the bike further, I would buy a programmable Boyer and develop an advance curve for it. However, these days I do not have the high level computer language which is needed. The last time I checked 'Python' was being used. If you are ever going to do this, you should remember the number 57.296 - it converts degrees to radians - which the high level languages use when they calculate.

quawk said:

This is exactly what I meant in my post. Yeah, there's always someone who remembers or knew so and so who did some sort of marathon ride. But that is the rare exception and not the norm.

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Trying understand the intent of your statement above...when you have this many guys offering up past/present experience finding the "norm" is as close as the next posting.
What's wrong with a memory offered directly related to your OP, rare, shared or whatever?

I'm trying to grasp what is it you are noting or seeking.
Your original post was intertwined with memories past of points based ignition but somehow it no longer seems focused on such but a critique of response offered.
Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.

quawk said:

This is exactly what I meant in my post. Yeah, there's always someone who remembers or knew so and so who did some sort of marathon ride. But that is the rare exception and not the norm.

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I have done quite a few 2500 to 3000 mile rides to California and home ( Vancouver BC) with the points ignition bike.
I never had to worry about the ignition nor did I mess with it along the way.
In fact, I try to leave things alone on those big trips, just clean the bike, oil the chain and check the oil.
I've ridden with guys who are always playing with the bike and more often than not they screw something up that creates a big problem when you are miles from nowhere.
I don't even like to mess with it at home before a big trip and only do so if absolutely necessary.

Glen

You could of course keep the points, but reduce the electrical load on them by fitting an inductive ignition system such as the Boyer. That way your points will last forever.

worntorn said:

I have done quite a few 2500 to 3000 mile rides to California and home ( Vancouver BC) with the points ignition bike.
I never had to worry about the ignition nor did I mess with it along the way.
In fact, I try to leave things alone on those big trips, just clean the bike, oil the chain and check the oil.
I've ridden with guys who are always playing with the bike and more often than not they screw something up that creates a big problem when you are miles from nowhere.
I don't even like to mess with it at home before a big trip and only do so if absolutely necessary.

Glen

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Glen,
How about Emgo Motorcycle parts? Do they make points? They make a good Commando Roadster replica tanks.
I have been running Pazon Sure Fire, for over 70K on my Interstate and not one hiccup. (Set and Forget) which did Replace the Boyer MK3.
In regards to points I'm not up on them.
It would be good to explore other companies other than Chyna to make them.


I bought a set of points in a (green box) with LUCAS Trust Lucas. 391-54419827 X4 but Not too sure of the quality. Can't remember if it was from Walridge or BCS....A few years ago, maybe 3-4 years.
WW10031
54419827
CONTACT SET
CNS24 3218

eg: https://www.gsparkplug.com/lucas-contact-set-54419827-bsa-norton-and-triumph-twins-motorcycle.html

It doesn't say Made in Chyna anywhere. but I wouldn't put Lucas past them to not include point of origin.
I believe this is not old stock!
What does your Old OEM box look like???
Thanks.

Cheers,
Tom

worntorn said:

I have done quite a few 2500 to 3000 mile rides to California and home ( Vancouver BC) with the points ignition bike.
I never had to worry about the ignition nor did I mess with it along the way.
In fact, I try to leave things alone on those big trips, just clean the bike, oil the chain and check the oil.
I've ridden with guys who are always playing with the bike and more often than not they screw something up that creates a big problem when you are miles from nowhere.
I don't even like to mess with it at home before a big trip and only do so if absolutely necessary.

Glen

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worntorn, your post is reassuring for those of us (me) that tends to want to just to retain the original points ignition. I wouldn't have a problem with going to an aftermarket ignition if the original points set-up was problem prone, but not necessarily just because there is a more modern alternative. That's what I was trying to determine when I started this thread, if the points system is problematic.