Primary Belt Drive Pros and Cons?

Comnoz, Many thanks for the clarification, I have in the past fitted a Norvil belt drive kit with no issues and was thinking of getting an RGM kit for a future project as it is a bit cheaper than Norvil. I will factor in a bit of machining cost and see if it is still worthwhile.

dave M said:

Comnoz, Many thanks for the clarification, I have in the past fitted a Norvil belt drive kit with no issues and was thinking of getting an RGM kit for a future project as it is a bit cheaper than Norvil. I will factor in a bit of machining cost and see if it is still worthwhile.

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If cheapness is your way to go don't buy the Steve Maney kit but if you want the best available go for the Maney kit :!:

nortonspeed said:

dave M said:

Comnoz, Many thanks for the clarification, I have in the past fitted a Norvil belt drive kit with no issues and was thinking of getting an RGM kit for a future project as it is a bit cheaper than Norvil. I will factor in a bit of machining cost and see if it is still worthwhile.

Click to expand...

If cheapness is your way to go don't buy the Steve Maney kit but if you want the best available go for the Maney kit :!:

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got it- love it...

Do they all need the double sided GB adjusters? Or is it just preferred. Can they be made to run true without the 2nd adjuster?

Dave
69S

RGM is showing a current price of 240 vs 289 GBP for Maney. Norvil comes in at just under 259 GBP. That's a range of about 77 US dollars. That isn't that much more if it is really a better product.

EDIT-That 289 GBP price is the race version, the road version is 259. I assume this is a 30mm belt instead of 40 mm?

Here are the links:

http://stevemaney.com/products.html

http://www.rgmmotors.co.uk/main.htm

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/

I don't know if you can get one or who actually makes it, but I have a 40mm Fair Spares version. It installed without any problems, and it fit inside the 1969 cases after I removed the timing indicator. I just have to make a new rotor nut as the std one is 10mm too short. I will see how well it fits inside the later cases this week. So far I am happy with it.

Its possible to align belt with just one adjuster but its iffy it it will stay that way under power loads. Way easier to have two adjusters and not a big deal just more money to get that non Norton feature.

I've Steve Maney 40mm drive for Ms Peel and it can fit under stock cover and retain the Lucas charger. Cd'o's are not a po boys hobby and upgrading just multiplies the drain but the pay back before ya die could well be worth it in the end.

Wonder if the Fair Spares is the same as the Norvil, same part numbers both kits. Phil calls it a Norvil part, but what means Norvil? Hemmings uses the Norvil name too.

What all needs to come off to install the drive side adjuster? Just the primary cases and then a lot of hand work? Unless you take the cradle off and have it machined.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Wonder if the Fair Spares is the same as the Norvil, same part numbers both kits. Phil calls it a Norvil part, but what means Norvil?

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There is a tie-up between Fair Spares America and The Norvil Motorcycle Co. which was originally 'Fair Spares' in the UK until the early 90's.

Hemmings 'Norvil' parts are entirely separate.
http://www.mickhemmings.com/

THE NORVIL® TRADEMARK
On NOVEMBER 4TH, 1994 at the Patent Office, London, the Comptroller General for
the Trade Marks Registry gave judgement that MR. LES EMERY, trading as FAIR
SPARES (Now trading as The Norvil M/C Company) has no exclusive Rights
whatsoever, to the Trade Mark “NORVIL”.
1. It was also his judgement that Andover Norton had not inherited from Norton Villiers
Performance Shop Ltd., any Rights to the NORVIL Trade Mark and thus, in effect,
had no Rights to assign to Mr. L. Emery. (Now trading as The Norvil M/C Company).
2. It was also clear that Andover Norton had never used the name NORVIL as a Trade
Mark.
3. No proof was given in evidence by “FAIR SPARES” that they had ever purchased
from Andover Norton, any so-called “Genuine” Jigs, Fixtures, Tools or drawings for
NORVIL parts.
4. MICK HEMMINGS MOTORCYCLES have been continuously manufacturing
NORVIL parts in the period 1974 to present, with the knowledge and assistance of
both ANDOVER NORTON and NORTON MOTORS LTD.
A FULL COPY OF THE COURT TRANSCRIPT WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE IS
AVAILABLE AT MICK HEMMINGS MOTORCYCLES FOR INSPECTION BY ANYONE
WHO WISHES.
®THE NORVIL TRADEMARK IS NOW OWNED BY BOTH COMPANIES.

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DogT said:

Wonder if the Fair Spares is the same as the Norvil, same part numbers both kits. Phil calls it a Norvil part, but what means Norvil? Hemmings uses the Norvil name too.

What all needs to come off to install the drive side adjuster? Just the primary cases and then a lot of hand work? Unless you take the cradle off and have it machined.

Dave
69S

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Just 1 hole to drill, pretty easy.

Hi there, the RGM (never used it ) is a synchroflex belt with trapezoidal teeth, the norvil (got three) is HTD 8mm round teeth, with much more choice of belt lenght and drum/front pulley size to adjust primary ratio, that said , I had fitted a maney one on a friends cdo and it's pretty nice and looks better enginered , it's an HTD too (8mm; round teeth), , that will be the one I will fit on my Seeley , when dosh will be there..............

Don't bother to fit a 40 mm belt, its way overdone for a street Commando, more important is to get the pulley and drum in line and square :!:

DogT said:

Wonder if the Fair Spares is the same as the Norvil, same part numbers both kits. Phil calls it a Norvil part, but what means Norvil? Hemmings uses the Norvil name too.

What all needs to come off to install the drive side adjuster? Just the primary cases and then a lot of hand work? Unless you take the cradle off and have it machined.

Dave
69S

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If you want to do the adjuster on the cheap, just remove the present adjuster and install a helicoil insert in the spacer. Then drill the left hand plate and install the adjuster on the left side and thread a new bolt with washer in from the rh side. Install the adjuster so it is pointing forward so it is easy to adjust. You will be fine with a single adjuster as long as it is on the left side nearer the belt. Jim

comnoz said:

If you want to do the adjuster on the cheap, just remove the present adjuster and install a helicoil insert in the spacer. Then drill the left hand plate and install the adjuster on the left side and thread a new bolt with washer in from the rh side. Install the adjuster so it is pointing forward so it is easy to adjust. You will be fine with a single adjuster as long as it is on the left side nearer the belt. Jim

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Cool, but still going to be a bear with the 'S' exhaust.

Dave

Nortonspeed, cheapness is not my main criteria, but all else being equal I would rather have the extra money in my pocket than in someone else's. I buy quite a lot of parts from RGM and it's easier for me, living in Asia, to order from one source when possible. Having said that, thanks to rvich's research on price, I would probably buy a Norvil product again, as I was very satisfied with the quality and performance of the kit they supplied previously and I don't want the hassle of having to machine new parts, I have bought many parts from Norvil in the past with no issues.

Hi guy, thanks for all the info and pic of RGM machining position. Looks like there is alot of guys running belts , whom ever makes them. Do you think running a round toothed belt whould be quieter then the trapezoidal one? Another Q, if heat is a problem , has been suggested by Roger at RGM to remove inner chaib case plates to allow for more air, another friend with a '73 850 has used perforated stainless thin plate(like strainers) pressed from the inside of the outer cover inspection holes. Looks trick.
In another application with a belt drive, (non motorcycle but about the same size belt and pulleys)we drilled the bottom of the grooves on the pulleys, this stopped the pulley /belt contact area acting as a pump when immersd in water, could this also reduce heat when running as a dry primary drive?
Once again reall appreciate all the feed back
Regards Mike

I have never found any difference in the noise between the two belt styles.

On my 73,000 mile belt I did the first half of it's life with a sealed chaincase and veltilated it later when I installed a big alternator. I have never felt they needed to be ventilated except to show off what you got.

I doubt that there is any real advantage to one belt type over the other for normal use. I know when I was racing and using them for all they were worth I could get a little longer life from the Synchroflex. I have heard others say the opposite so who knows.

I bought my first RGM setup because it was cheaper than the rest and I was pretty poor. Since I had a lathe at my disposal finishing the job that should have been done at the factory was not a big deal. I probably would not be happy if I had to send it out and pay to finish it.

I used to drill the sprockets on the racebike thinking they may cool better. I don't know if it actually helped or not.

The one thing I found when racing with an open primary was that if a rock or debris got run between the belt and pully the Gates belt would break the glass fibers and fail almost imediately whereas the Sychroflex belt would show damage but it wouldn't break right away. Jim

Thanks Jim, I also have access to a lathe an no cost, so a quick skim for .020" is not a problem. Am going to make new footrest pegs anyway on the same lathe plus give the rear brake drum a quick tidy up at the same time. owner is an engineer , as am I, I pay in fresh fish that i spear myself!!!
i think for my general use i am happy with the RGM, it will be hand carried from the UK to China,(am there now at work) so dont have to pay for freight .
Cost of same unit in NZ is $ 950 NZD, but supplier is getting anymore until next year.
Thanks again for your input no doubt will be back on here again. Next topic will be the swingarm bushes!!!!!
I am sure that will get people on here going
Regards Mike

I have used this belt drive at least 5 times on various commando builds, you have to fit a drive side pull on the transmission sprocket side to maintain belt runout ( i make my own-you can too with MIG)- Vent primary case with stainless steel bathtub strainers(looks nice). Have had NO luck on mk3 maintaining adjustment- stay with chain- MK 2 and down- EXCELLENT product- Have 1 new unit if your interested in box/ make offer.

hi carlo, where are you in the world?