P11 basket case

All:
I am joining this discussion regarding fitting a Commando clutch to an Atlas mainshaft rather late. Suffice to say, it can be done .... I know because I did it. However, it was in the early 70's, so my memory is not all clear how I did it.

IIRC, I slipped the Cdo clutch on the Atlas shaft without fully torquing down the nut and let the clutch "float" allowing the triplex chain to find the alignment. To prevent the nut from coming loose, I fashioned some sort of retainer to hold the nut from rotating. The details of the retainer is the fuzzy part .... I do not remember how I did it.

I enjoyed the two finger clutch pull until the plates wore and needed an adjustment to the stack height. After that I struggled with finding the exact stack height to result in easy pull, no slip, and no drag. Long story short ..... after running the Cdo clutch for about 15K miles, I gave up on it and went back to the AMC clutch, partly because I became concerned that I had no cush drive, and the Cdo clutch had more flywheel effect than the AMC, which I did not like.

Also, if memory serves correctly, I had to buy triplex chain in bulk, and fit with a master link as a stock Cdo chain proved too short. To complete the conversion, I had to fit all the alternator parts which I obtained from an early Cdo I bought for parts. I had to change out rotor, stator, rotor fixing sleeve nut, and the stator mount, the latter proved to be some interim variant between the Atlas/ Dominator type and later Commando type. It may have been the fortuitous part that made the whole conversion possible.

I am back on an AMC clutch, running Barnett clutch plates, Venhill cable, and ATF, with 1 turn of the clutch spring nuts less than recommended, and I am happy. I would not recommend anyone make the Atlas/ hybrid to Cdo clutch conversion.

Slick

Junglebiker said:

If I could find the appropriate barb fitting, I'd screw it into where the drain plug currently is, then put a stout rubber hose on it with a plug in the bottom like some Harleys have. Makes it super easy and clean to change the oil.

Click to expand...

I've been thinking about that for many years and not done a thing about it. Probably have to make/fake one by drilling and tapping the center of the plug for a small brass barb fitting.

Went to Baxter Cycle and ordered one of these: https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/06-0592/ And also some other parts I'll need later. Thanks for letting me know that these even existed.

Got the parts from Baxter--got the oil fitting installed, got my carbs mounted on a set of Triumph T120 intakes (thanks @vercu ). Splashed out for a set of Vintco replica Fox AirShox, we shall see how good or bad they are. They do look pretty good, though. The shocks with the big red springs I'll ship to PNG to go under my VW beetle. They came off of the front of a snowmobile and were hopelessly too stiff for my Norton, but they were attractively priced on eBay...
And naturally I forgot to take any pictures!!
Tomorrow I hope to get oil lines installed and then, maybe try starting the engine!!

Yea , one thing I hate is a " Original " motorcycle rebuilt from 5.000 differantly sourced parts .

If youve got ' The Basics ' youve got free reign to do something workable . Practicable even .
the ' coustom bike ' shows tend to make you wonder what they were on or what they were trying to do .

First you need a THEME . Obviously as a HILLCLIMBER . As it's got to steer , handle , brake , turn in , get the power on early , get out of corners under power ,
and drift into them if youve gone in to hot .

Or youcould paint it candy apple , have it imposable to sit on , drill holes in important structural members , and have obstructions to the intakes , and run mufflers ! .



Tho in Europe , theyre sealed , so you need a Egli Vincent !

these Off Road things tend to run thick seats , for some reason .




I put NORTON I.S.D.T. in the thing , to see what we got .


the olde adage " Simplify and add lightness " might help . No harm in spit and polish , but the practacality & durability are paramount ,
No harm in getting a bit tecnical & putting in a few curved edges , if youve got the money . But many a champ was assembled from ' Wot fits ' .

And a Salty Dog . https://autostradamagazine.com/editorials/conquering-the-salt

Matt Spencer said:

Click to expand...

I like that Commando based street tracker--I'd be tempted to go a similar direction if I had a Commando project.
One thing I think I've learned: avoid starting from "frame-and-a-crankcase" again.

Theres a ' similar to whatcher aiming at ' Commando ' preview picture , for the next ( August ) issue ,
Box secion swing arm , tall forks . Noticeably he ' side panel ' is similar . Worth keeping an eye out for .

Paris - Dakar , here we come ! .

texasSlick said:

All:
I am joining this discussion regarding fitting a Commando clutch to an Atlas mainshaft rather late. Suffice to say, it can be done .... I know because I did it. However, it was in the early 70's, so my memory is not all clear how I did it.

IIRC, I slipped the Cdo clutch on the Atlas shaft without fully torquing down the nut and let the clutch "float" allowing the triplex chain to find the alignment. To prevent the nut from coming loose, I fashioned some sort of retainer to hold the nut from rotating. The details of the retainer is the fuzzy part .... I do not remember how I did it.

I enjoyed the two finger clutch pull until the plates wore and needed an adjustment to the stack height. After that I struggled with finding the exact stack height to result in easy pull, no slip, and no drag. Long story short ..... after running the Cdo clutch for about 15K miles, I gave up on it and went back to the AMC clutch, partly because I became concerned that I had no cush drive, and the Cdo clutch had more flywheel effect than the AMC, which I did not like.

Also, if memory serves correctly, I had to buy triplex chain in bulk, and fit with a master link as a stock Cdo chain proved too short. To complete the conversion, I had to fit all the alternator parts which I obtained from an early Cdo I bought for parts. I had to change out rotor, stator, rotor fixing sleeve nut, and the stator mount, the latter proved to be some interim variant between the Atlas/ Dominator type and later Commando type. It may have been the fortuitous part that made the whole conversion possible.

I am back on an AMC clutch, running Barnett clutch plates, Venhill cable, and ATF, with 1 turn of the clutch spring nuts less than recommended, and I am happy. I would not recommend anyone make the Atlas/ hybrid to Cdo clutch conversion.

Slick

Click to expand...

Did the commando clutch center become very worn from running loose on the mainshaft spline ?

Okay, time to catch up on some pics.
Got the proper oil feed line fitting and installed it. Also got some 1/2" oil line from my local NAPA, 3 feet was just about the perfect amount.



Used a set of aftermarket Commando oil lines with my slightly modified rocker oilers. Had to use a Dowerty washer on the bottom of the stack to get it to seal properly. I drilled short holes in the oilers and used short roll pins inset into the oilers to keep the spindles from rotating. To keep the whole assembly sealed, I made large gaskets out of a sheet of solid, dead soft copper. I was happy to use the copper for the its heat transfer abilities, but I was sure they would leak, but so far show no signs of doing so. The Torx bolts I used simply because there was a good supply of them near at hand.


Got a line on my breather, this breather surprised me when I tried to start the engine--sometimes it makes a wheezing, squealing sound. Also notice my new Wassel rotor. It's part of a kit I bought which includes a 180 watt 3 phase stator and solid state rectifier/regulator. This will be the basis of my lighting system. I plan to build my wiring harness from scratch. I have built a number of these before using my own simple design, inspired by various old Japanese bikes. When we get to that point, I will write it all down.


Splashed out for new made Vintco reproductions of the old Fox Airshox. These appear to be well made and are dead ringers for the old Fox units of the late 1970's. NOT CHEAP, but I very much appreciate the near infinite adjustability. Local aircraft hangar was able to help me charge them with nitrogen, though the instructions clearly say that air is also acceptable.


So I've been putting off dealing with a major issue--my front and rear sprockets are(were) about 1/2" out of line. I thought on this problem for quite a while and came up with a plan. I bought another sprocket with 50 teeth and a much larger hole in the center than the sprocket that was fitted to this old KZ750B rear wheel. While I had the sprocket carrier off for modification, I snapped this pic of the cush drive system in this wheel. This is a NOS cushion and this system is the major reason why I used this wheel:


Here's my modified rear sprocket. First I machined a "seat" in the sprocket carrier for the new sprocket. I machined it far enough to the right to get it lined up with the front sprocket. Then I took the original 38 tooth KZ750B rear sprocket and machined all the teeth off of it. Then I machined 6 steel spacers which I placed between the new sprocket and the toothless old sprocket. Tightening the nuts on the toothless old sprocket clamped the spacers between the new and old sprockets, once clamped into position, I welded both sprockets and spacers all together. Once all welded together I put the newly modified sprocket in the lathe and machined the whole mess into something that I liked the look of better. Then I painted the whole thing and also the sprocket carrier and installed it all:


Step by step, little by little we are getting there. Haven't managed to get it started yet--got some pretty good backfires, though.

baz said:

Did the commando clutch center become very worn from running loose on the mainshaft spline ?

Click to expand...

Not that I noticed any such wear when I pulled it off and went back to the
AMC clutch.
Although the clutch "was floating", it would not be constantly moving once the triplex chain forced it on center.

Slick

@Junglebiker

Regarding Post No 230:
Nice work!

Slick

I'm impressed. Really like the look of the parts and the work it took to put your mean machine together. It'll be a one off show stopper without question.

Master mechanic machinist thinking on the rear hub modifications for the new gear and drive train alignment.

I've lived more than half of my life in out-of-the-way parts of the world where the "correct" parts were hard to get. Since not having a motorcycle was not an option I was willing to consider, I've had to modify, adapt, and otherwise make mismatched parts work together ever since I was 12-13 years old. I enjoy it, most of the time!

With the Venhill cable do you find the clutch pull has improved with all the springs in it, or are you still planning to run it with 3 springs?

Schwany said:

With the Venhill cable do you find the clutch pull has improved with all the springs in it, or are you still planning to run it with 3 springs?

Click to expand...

Turns out once I got the NEB clutch installed and adjusted, it's not any stiffer with all 6 springs than the AMC clutch is with 3 Barnett springs in it. I should have finished the install before asking the question. Too late to delete the question though, so I figured I'd answer myself.

I'm currently waiting for the sealer on the primary case to fully cure before adding fluid and testing how the NEB clutch will work without a cush in the rear hub.

You mentioned the wheezing breather. I have something similar on the timing side. It quacks like a duck. You won't hear anything once you get it fired up. The reed is flapping too fast to squeak.

Have you gotten it to fire up and idle yet?

Well, unfortunately, I am out of time. No, I never got it started--I discovered that my magneto drive chain is more worn out than I realised, and the new one hasn't come in yet. For now I have all 6 springs in the clutch. The Venhill cable is the only one I have ever had in it, I do not know how it compares, though the clutch on Motorson's Commando feels pretty stiff, too. Maybe japanese clutches have just spoiled me? Maybe I'll do a hydraulic conversion some time, but for now, I must leave it like this:
No footpegs/footrests, no foot controls, no brakes, no drive chain, no electrical wiring other than the ignition, leaky gearbox for some reason, no screws holding the primary drive cover on, lots of other little things to finish, but hey! 4 months ago I had nothing but a pile of parts, so you know, I don't feel too bad about it not being done yet.

Rear suspension is currently a little too stiff, even with my heavy butt on the seat it still only compresses about 1.5" or so. I'd like it to be a bit more compliant, but that will come later, and hopefully the pre-sag will be such that the rear end won't sit up quite so high.

The blue paint just happened to be one of the colors that was available to me in Motorson's garage! It's not that great, mainly because I was impatient and just wanted to get some color on. I like it, though. The badges came from Baxter's, though they were packaged in old Domiracer bags.

For the next 5 months we plan to be in the UK--Haslemere, Surrey, to be specific. Anybody here live in that area? Just about the only thing I don't care for when I am in the UK is a lack of a garage. None of my in-laws are "practical" people, so none of them can understand my need for a workshop and something to work on.

We should be back in the USA in December, though we will only be here for 3 or 4 months before jetting off to Papua New Guinea again for 2 years or so. I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to spend on this next time I am in the US, we shall see!

Schwany said:

You mentioned the wheezing breather. I have something similar on the timing side. It quacks like a duck. You won't hear anything once you get it fired up. The reed is flapping too fast to squeak.

Have you gotten it to fire up and idle yet?

Click to expand...

It's normal for reed breathers to "Quack" for the first few rotations. Once you have a partial vacuum I don't think the reed flaps any more.

cliffa said:

It's normal for reed breathers to "Quack" for the first few rotations.

Click to expand...

Indeed it is. I was trying to imply the noise was normal, because mine quacks. I'm so misunderstood on this site.