NOT Another Oil Thread

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Just stripped the top end after 16K miles to replace a base gasket, tappets still exhibit the grind marks in their faces and cam looks untouched. When I put them in I used Millers pistoneeze 20w50 sport which was semi synthetic, it got real hot after 4 hours of riding in 39C, it smelt cooked but still looked intact when drained. I then changed it to Millers CFS 10w60 full synthetic, which contains ZDDP. Having seen my cam and tappets, guess what I'll be using. I'll get photos today as I reassemble it.
 
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Madnorton said:
Just stripped the top end after 16K miles to replace a base gasket, tappets still exhibit the grind marks in their faces and cam looks untouched. When I put them in I used Millers pistoneeze 20w50 sport which was semi synthetic, it got real hot after 4 hours of riding in 39C, it smelt cooked but still looked intact when drained. I then changed it to Millers CFS 10w60 full synthetic, which contains ZDDP. Having seen my cam and tappets, guess what I'll be using. I'll get photos today as I reassemble it.
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Apparently there are two products, Millers CFS 10w60 and Millers CFS 10w60 NT+, do they both have the ZDDP?

It's on Amazon, price not too bad, but delivery to France 67€
 
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Another expensive oil that has very high ZDDP yet tested poorly was Redline Synthetic.
It might have had the highest ZDDP of all the oils tested.
IIRC it's around 2200 ppm whereas VR1 is about 1200. So there seems to be an optimum number for ZDDP, go beyond that and the lubricity suffers.
There are also various versions of ZDDP , some may be better than others. All of the info I'm spouting here comes from Jim's oil testing thread.
You can't beat seeing the results of heat and wear when two pieces of metal scrape away at each other with pressure in a controlled environment.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
Ive run vr1 20/50 and straight 50 (in hot temps) in the Vincent for 60,000 miles now. That mileage has been mainly two up + luggage touring with a fair bit of it done in 95-100 f weather.
On inspection at 60,000 miles the bores measured 1 thou of taper/wear. Hastings piston rings recommend a rebore at 12 thou taper.
The valve stems measured 2 ten thousands of wear.
Up to 7 or 8 ten thousandths would be acceptable.
Leak down also good, after a bit of valve seat grinding then lapping to remove carbon deposits.
So the VR1 seems to do the job.
Jim noted that it is an oil that oxidizes fairly quickly in hot temps. If you are on a long tour in a hot region that could be an issue with the Norton. Norton twins run quite a bit hotter than the Vin with its separated alloy cylinders and massive alloy crankcases out in the breeze.

Glen
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I agree regarding the heat. When I rode the Commando out to Ca. then up to the Oregon rally, it was 105 degrees. Changed there to Royal Purple full synthetic for the trip home. Ran fine home, switched back later on.
 
I just get my Royal Purple from Amazon. While I hate Bezos I like not going to the store more. It's a tradeoff.
 
Too bad we have to go thru this every 3 or thousand kms or so.
The modern bikes here get new oil at 10,000 kms for the 2005 and 15,000 kms for the 2016 model. The oil in the 2016 model at 15,000 kms is cleaner than the 05 at 10,000 kms. The 05 oil at 10,000 kms is still cleaner than the old bikes are at about 1000 kms! (:
 
gortnipper said:
Support mom n pop shops.
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We've already driven them out of business here. Fat, lazy Americans can get off their butts long enough to go down and get harassed by some cranky old motorcycle shop owner. We prefer to get our abuse on motorcycle forums instead.
 
I don't mind supporting Jeff Bezos. He has a very high maintenance girlfriend, worse than a Norton.
She is very fit but some of her major body parts are from Dow Corning and those things don't last forever.
So in a way, I'm supporting her too.

Glen
 
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SteveA said:
Apparently there are two products, Millers CFS 10w60 and Millers CFS 10w60 NT+, do they both have the ZDDP?

It's on Amazon, price not too bad, but delivery to France 67€
Click to expand...
Not sure about the NT+ but the 10w60 does. Oil blenders should tell you if it contains ZDDP as some modern engines don't like it.
Yes, you can have too much ZDDP.
Personally, I use a 10Wxx oil as I like lot of oil getting past those tappets as quick possible, to lubricate and remove heat. Use one of those thermometers that were all the rage at the start of covid, measure the temp near your plugs and then on you tappet tunnel near the barrel base. That's why I want something to do both jobs.
 
Yes but the oil changed and left our Bikes behind. They removed most of the zinc to stop catalytic converter damage. The new oil is ok for modern engines, but hard on flat tappets engines.
Thats what the specialty oils are all about.

Comnoz sorted them out for us.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
I don't mind supporting Jeff Bezos. He has a very high maintenance girlfriend, worse than a Norton.
She is very fit but some of her major body parts are from Dow Corning and those things don't last forever.
So in a way, I'm supporting her too.

Glen
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With that much silicone she probably doesn’t need a lot of support ;)
 
Madnorton said:
Not sure about the NT+ but the 10w60 does. Oil blenders should tell you if it contains ZDDP as some modern engines don't like it.
Yes, you can have too much ZDDP.
Personally, I use a 10Wxx oil as I like lot of oil getting past those tappets as quick possible, to lubricate and remove heat. Use one of those thermometers that were all the rage at the start of covid, measure the temp near your plugs and then on you tappet tunnel near the barrel base. That's why I want something to do both jobs.
Click to expand...
I have purchased a set of Tech Trail under plug temp gauges, the same as I have fitted to my GT500 Suzuki. I have a bracket that will allow me to mount them temporarily if I choose.

As for the thermometer, well....it stopped working....cheap and nasty....so you have to wonder on accuracy! Will have to get another I suppose.

Let us know if you find a decent sensor to mount at the cylinder base! I suppose you could use a 10mm spark plug sensor under the 3/8" barrel stud/washer?
 
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