Most common modifications for Daily use

Mark said:

mike996 said:

Frankly, it seems to me that most of the complaints re the Amals seem to ignore the fact that they are 40+ years old. It's hardly fair to compare it to a new carb of some other brand and then state that an Amal is no good in comparison.

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Well...... if the goal is to make the engine run as good as possible, then yes new carbs are better than 40+ year old amals.
If originality is the goal, keep the old carbs. but then you should probably keep the points and chain oiler too. The bike is gonna give you more reliability issues, but heck..... it's original.

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My point - perhaps bady made - is that the Amals, regardless how old, if restored to like new condition - will perform/run as well as any other carb you care to put on there…and much better than a single Mikuni, which seems to be a popular setup.

Mark said:

comnoz said:

If I had a dollar for every hour I have spent farting around with old Amals......

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AMEN!
I bet that there are a lot of guys here on the forum who would say the same thing.

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There are many who can say they have farted for hours on Premiers as well.

You shouldn't fart on a Premiere, especially not for hours. This could affect it's performance or cause early corrosion.
As others have said, provided you have correct jets in etc, just bolt them on, set the idle and ride.

Glen

pete.v said:

Mark said:

comnoz said:

If I had a dollar for every hour I have spent farting around with old Amals......

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AMEN!
I bet that there are a lot of guys here on the forum who would say the same thing.

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There are many who can say they have farted for hours on Premiers as well.

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And Mikunis.
And Keihins.
And probably even a few Delortos

comnoz said:

pete.v said:

Mark said:

AMEN!
I bet that there are a lot of guys here on the forum who would say the same thing.

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There are many who can say they have farted for hours on Premiers as well.

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And Mikunis.
And Keihins.
And probably even a few Delortos

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You got that right. It is truly relative.

Honestly,
the mk1 Amals are good for what....... maybe 10,000 miles before the slide is rattling around inside of the bore?
10K miles can be racked up pretty quickly if the bike is used daily so expect to be replacing (or repairing) your carbs every other time you replace your tires.

Farting around with any carbs to get them set up for your engine? Yeah, there's probably gonna be some adjustments required.
But...... once tuned, the newer carburetors (or modified old ones) are going to give optimum performance for a longer period of time just because of the better materials used.

There's about 46,000 miles on my Mikuni and not once have I had to smear grease on my slide to try to get a stable idle.
My point ??????? Not all carburetors are created equal.

I have twin Mikunis on one bike, twin Amal premieres on the other identical bike. The Amal bike had old style Concentrics on it prior to them wearing out, albeit at changed out at 29,000 miles not 10,000. Prior to about 28,000 miles they worked fine, the bike idled steadily, started easily and got good mileage.
The Mikunis have never given as good starting and I have had lots of problems with sticking floats. Other club members have installed the same Mikunis and also had float problems. The were all new Mikunis.

With Mikunis, idle is decent when warm, tho the bike will die when cold unless the throttle is locked on high idle. With the Amals both new and old, on the other bike, idle was/is strong right from cold, no need for high idle.



I agree, not all carbs are equal.
Mikunis were a possible solution to the Amal early slide wear issue, but bring other issues of their own and they do not last forever either. One clubmate has just changed out his Mikunis due to wear, they had about thirty five thousand miles on them. Chrome on the slides was quite worn away and smooth operation was no more.
With reasonably priced new premieres available with slippery anodized slides and removable pilot jets, there is no need to try to make the Mikunis work anymore, so the Mikuni bike is also getting treated to a pair of new Premieres. Will report on result.
Either Carb type will work, but for me the Amal Premieres just work a little better. It will be interesting to see what the slide wear life is.

Glen

^ I never really thought about it but it makes sense that rubber mounting could make them last longer.

What with the attitudes when all of us to go through the Commando learning curve balls. Others before me have said the intake pulses and back splash bang slides as much or more sharply than the engine hops. Sort of boils down > if you are more old fashioned dirty finger nail Rocker on a falling apart POS Norton or a clean hand proper Mod type with low maintenance uNorton appliances. Shoot just mix and match or get 2 Commandos and have it both ways.

One thing I found out with old Amals carbies is to replace the jets and needles ever 2 to 3 years as they wear from vibrations, my orginal Amals you could nearly turn the slide around from so much wear, only the pins stopped them, I replaced them at 60,000 miles, but with so much wear in the slides they still worked when riding but the idle did play up, ajustment fixed that, my second set of Amals i replaced them at 80,000 miles, they were still working ok when I replaced them, but this time I went for Jim"s PWKs flatslide, I have not touched them yet, the only problem I have had with them is sometimes the float will stick open but a few taps on the bowls nomaly fix that.

Ashley

Just a bit of advice...

As you are undertaking the revival of a Commando this will necessitate the importation of numerous parts into the household. Leaving invoices laying around will almost certainly result in much conflict in the household.

Suggest you tell your other half that you are an artist creating Kinetic Art and that your work will bring great joy to all those that view the Norton. Further you can point out that you are in the studio creating beautiful art and not in a pub getting into trouble.

Good luck with your Norton revival.

norsa1 said:

...you are an artist creating Kinetic Art...

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I like that! It can flow over to many things I do that seem to fly in the face of financial reason. I'm an artist; don't judge me...

Another bit of unsolicited spousal management advice
When the bike is back on the road, do not say, "Well that's it, that was the last ride for the year, I'm putting the bike(s) away for winter and will concentrate on other things"

Three days later when you decide to go for another ride or even to do some work on the bike, these words come back to haunt.
I hate it when my own words get used against me! :mrgreen:

Glen

Lots of good advice here but if you have to rebuild the motor and need new pistons then you should definitly change them out for the JS motorsport lightweight pistons and longer rods. I've done so and its the biggest improvment I've made. The thing about Nortons is they vibrate badly (the reason for those rubber mounts). The lightweight pistons smooth out the vibes and makes everything more reliable. No more worries about cracking the cases or crank from vibration. The last thing you want is for the guts of your bottom end to blow up. I get a big smile on my face everytime I revv her up now. I feel like I have the best of everything. I ride a vintage bike with its classic look that feels like it has a improved smooth running modern engine in it.

On the other foot, most the record breaking speed and endurance tests were done before our time decades ago on essentially all factory parts so don't have to leave Norton part numbers to have early and essentially complete isolation. if time and money enough you can have a completely non Norton Commando but would be hard pressed into squid behavior to operate it to tell the difference. I like the pleasant soft pitter pats of slow rpm that feels like a biplane lift off smoothie about 2000 rpm -especially after beveling the two front big cushions. Most the crap to worry about for plain jane daily rider is mostly dealing with leak prone stuff like tach drive, fork seals, tranny shafts and rocker covers and swing arm drool. Getting clutch pack stack right-ish so easy to work lever and perfect slient engagement & function. Front brake becomes a tire szie tester by just poling out the rubber fluid restrictors, still need good grip but acts like ABS at hi speed panic yet easy to feather off to almost a stoppie, if watching out not to swap ends as it lifts rear out of surface traction. I thought I'd have to upgrade to SS braid hose to get over powering brake but nope just new factory hose and no restrictor is plenty for me who often pulls down like my life depended on it and win. Getting electrics reliable is another area to go through d/t rotted connectors and maybe a couple-3 relays for brighter lights. Gas cap and oil tank cap seals common to leak if not renewed. Rear hub-drum bearings commonly worn loose for wobble that chews up hub cushions and shocks drive train and fracture prone dumb axle. Playing with handlebar type and mirrors and foot peg or rear sets makes a lot of difference of blending with the smoothness every day you can. Getting kick lever to stay stable and not chew up splines so trapped on shaft is another biggie to modify. Another thing to keep in mind that Norton parts will be available past our life times but many the superduper upgrades makers will be long gone for future replacements.

I've been able to keep Trixie Combat all Norton from contact breakers up and ride on errands to not delaying the worlds most elite cycles out for thrilling joy rides in Mt curves up to 120 mph and working my ass off to control hinging in tighter turns so what more could I want in an old antique I can spend all day 900 miles and not want to get off and break the trance. With enough money and nonNorton parts i am making one to spank the best cycles out there on and off road too who knows how fast but expect to have to part it out in the end as who'd buy such a mix and match combo.

I say if wanting to jump Norton fence in major items sell off the stock one to those that want a real Commando and buy everything new to build a non Norton wonder. You'll save time and money starting from scratch rather than collecting piles and boxes of Norton left overs.