More charging info

Recently I flew in a new Boeing 777; I was as far forward as could be without being on the flight deck., the lithium battery in the sten still bothered me, not to the point of turning in my 1 year pin. Last year I met a firefighter who said that crews working on car fires don't like electric vehicles, and once they have gotten the occupant(s) out they let them burn, from a very safe distance.

No question that lithium batteries are considerable lighter, hold a charge longer. With the narrow charge window, the consequences of over or under charging, never mind the initial cost, why add worry/concern to the normal routine of risk taking?

MOSFET reg/recs operate by dropping AC output legs when system requirements are being met, they can add them back when demand increases. Virtually all the reg/recs I have had experience with limit system voltage to 14.2. I have seen variations where system voltage can hit 14.4, not very common.

If you want the motorcycle to be as light as possible, don't forget that your weight is an integral part of the power to weight ratio; so lose some body weight. The recipe for that is quite simple: cut calorie intake or increase exercise, preferable both.

Motorcyclists are risk taker by definition why add unnecessary risk, instead go faster, lean more, enjoy the risk you (think) you can control.

Best.
 
Schwany, if the voltage draw down at idle did turn out to be an issue at some point, you could switch to a 2.6 ah lead acid an you should actually have a wee bit more battery storage.
If I have the correct specs, that is the rating with full charge at 14.4 volts. Down at 13.1 it's at 40% so that's around 1 ah.
A lead acid at 13.1 is fully charged plus, so you would have the full 2.6 ah available.
A 2.6 ah AGM is quite small and light. I found one about that size at 1.2 lbs whereas your Anti-Gravity is 15 ounces, not much difference.

Glen
 
RoadScholar said:
Recently I flew in a new Boeing 777; I was as far forward as could be without being on the flight deck., the lithium battery in the sten still bothered me, not to the point of turning in my 1 year pin. Last year I met a firefighter who said that crews working on car fires don't like electric vehicles, and once they have gotten the occupant(s) out they let them burn, from a very safe distance.

No question that lithium batteries are considerable lighter, hold a charge longer. With the narrow charge window, the consequences of over or under charging, never mind the initial cost, why add worry/concern to the normal routine of risk taking?

MOSFET reg/recs operate by dropping AC output legs when system requirements are being met, they can add them back when demand increases. Virtually all the reg/recs I have had experience with limit system voltage to 14.2. I have seen variations where system voltage can hit 14.4, not very common.

If you want the motorcycle to be as light as possible, don't forget that your weight is an integral part of the power to weight ratio; so lose some body weight. The recipe for that is quite simple: cut calorie intake or increase exercise, preferable both.

Motorcyclists are risk taker by definition why add unnecessary risk, instead go faster, lean more, enjoy the risk you (think) you can control.

Best.
Click to expand...
If I understand Grant Tillers info correctly, the Trispark MOSFET reg and the Shindengen MOSFET reg are shorting type regs like the Podtronics. They regulate by shorting the two AC alt legs. This makes the stator quite warm.
The Shindengen SCR Type 775 and 847 are series type, they switch the AC output off. The stator runs cooler with this type.

Glen
 
1. How "hot" does the stator get based on the type of regulator?

2. How "hot" does the stator get due to engine heat?

If the engine heat absorbed by the stator is higher than the temp the stator gets on its own with the "wrong" regulator, won't the stator just run at the hotter of the two temps regardless of regulator type?
 
If i understand correctly, the Podtronics regulator and the likes regulate by shorting the alternator output to ground, which may results in excessive heat to the stator.
However, to my knowledge, does not the old style zener diode do the same ?
Am I missing something ? Hope somebody with more knowledge on this subject can enlighten me
 
Peter R said:
If i understand correctly, the Podtronics regulator and the likes regulate by shorting the alternator output to ground, which may results in excessive heat to the stator.
However, to my knowledge, does not the old style zener diode do the same ?
Am I missing something ? Hope somebody with more knowledge on this subject can enlighten me
Click to expand...
Yes pretty much the same as I understand it
But I assume with lower consumption LEDs etc there's a bit more heat for the stator to shed?
 
For those of us going the other way: no electric boot, all LED lamps, little if any sitting in traffic esp at night.
A full size AGM is pretty heavy and big. I just bought a smaller AH battery, cheaper and lighter too.
My worry then is I see above 14.2 volts often. So I run with the lamps lit. So far no worries. Early days though.
...and please don't tell me to shed weight. There isn't any to shed lest I remove my clothes...
 
Onder said:
For those of us going the other way: no electric boot, all LED lamps, little if any sitting in traffic esp at night.
A full size AGM is pretty heavy and big. I just bought a smaller AH battery, cheaper and lighter too.
My worry then is I see above 14.2 volts often. So I run with the lamps lit. So far no worries. Early days though.
...and please don't tell me to shed weight. There isn't any to shed lest I remove my clothes...
Click to expand...
Don't think I'd want to see too much above 14.2
What does it go up to?
 
MexicoMike said:
Funny - when lights-on when the ignition was turned on was mandated by the federal gov, most moto riders hated the idea and many rigged switches to defeat it. How times and opinions change! ;)
Click to expand...
It's a bit like when you buy petrol over here and some petrol stations make you take your crash helmet off to serve you
Since the covid nobody says a word
 
Tornado said:
Still wondering why bother with all these worries whe n LeadAcid chemistry is what the original system was designed for?
Click to expand...
Would have thought the answer fairly obvious?

For me it is a clear issue of weight saving. Especially if using an e start, the big batteries required mean the difference between LA and Li HUGE. So, the total weight gain of an e start conversion (vs stock) can greatly reduced using things like a belt drive and Li battery.

The LA battery on one of my bikes recently died, so as a temporary measure I fitted the Shoria off of the Commnado. It spins the starter MUCH faster and thus starts much easier. But the killer is, it is 8.5lbs lighter...

As the kind of nut job who’s spent years removing things, drilling holes in things, and replacing things with lighter materials on my bikes, 8.5lbs difference on one single part is just freakin‘ HUGE!

So, IF the Shorai works safely and reliably, why on Earth wouldn’t I want it ? The key is to ensure this is the case.

Of course, as to whether or not weight reduction is a priority to others is a different matter entirely, personal choice etc.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Would have thought the answer fairly obvious?

For me it is a clear issue of weight saving. Especially if using an e start, the big batteries required mean the difference between LA and Li HUGE. So, the total weight gain of an e start conversion (vs stock) can greatly reduced using things like a belt drive and Li battery.

The LA battery on one of my bikes recently died, so as a temporary measure I fitted the Shoria off of the Commnado. It spins the starter MUCH faster and thus starts much easier. But the killer is, it is 8.5lbs lighter...

As the kind of nut job who’s spent years removing things, drilling holes in things, and replacing things with lighter materials on my bikes, 8.5lbs difference on one single part is just freakin‘ HUGE!

So, IF the Shorai works safely and reliably, why on Earth wouldn’t I want it ? The key is to ensure this is the case.

Of course, as to whether or not weight reduction is a priority to others is a different matter entirely, personal choice etc.
Click to expand...
Remind me, do you use a 21 Ah Li?
 
gortnipper said:
Remind me, do you use a 21 Ah Li?
Click to expand...
Yessir.

However, I used a 19ah Shoria on the 961, which worked great. I’m thinking of trying this on the Commando as a) I have it lying around on the self doing nothing and b) it’s a lot smaller in height than the 21ah which would be kinda handy (during carb removal and fitting etc).
 
Last edited:
A LiFePO4 battery is weight and space saving if you have electric start. And don't forget turning lights off when on the pub.
Because they have more starting grunt (CCA) and less capacity in Ah.
For a kick start bike weight saving in terms of Ah capacity isn't great.
Most modern motorcycles and some classic bikes with modern electronics draw current when not used. So disconnect the battery when not used for long periods.
The cheapest way to save weight is to remove the battery and rely on the MC2 capacitor. Works on some bikes.
I have no trouble topping up a dozen lead batteries once in the middle of the winter.
Read somewhere that LiFePO4 batteries should not be used in total loss systems. Anybody able to confirm?
 
Mike40M said:
Read somewhere that LiFePO4 batteries should not be used in total loss systems. Anybody able to confirm?
Click to expand...

I think the logic behind that is that they have very low ‘real’ amp hours, so fundamentally just aren’t very well suited to the task.

But I know racers who use ‘em. Maybe they charge them religiously between races etc?
 
MexicoMike said:
1. How "hot" does the stator get based on the type of regulator?

2. How "hot" does the stator get due to engine heat?

If the engine heat absorbed by the stator is higher than the temp the stator gets on its own with the "wrong" regulator, won't the stator just run at the hotter of the two temps regardless of regulator type?
Click to expand...
It really depends on how much power you are capable of generating that you do not need. Like many of us, I had put a 3 phase alternator on my bike so that I could run a very bright H4 halogen bulb at all times. The RM21 could not keep up unless you were running highway speeds at all times.

Fast forward 20 years - LED bulbs are now all the rage and provide even better light than the old halogen. I ran one for about a month prior to putting the Alton on. In that month, and about 1500 miles of riding, the stator had got hot enough to discolour the potting material (it was a Sparx stator, was light green in colour). It now has a few brown spots on it. Not sure if the damage deeper than that...

With permanent magnet alternators, it is important to match your output to the typical running load, especially with a short-type regulator. Compound this with a Li battery, and you now have a narrower voltage window that you need to run within.

If you need the extra power of larger output alternator seasonally to run heated accessories, likely the Shindegen series type regulator is a better fit for you.

And I would not be worried about over voltage on a lead acid battery until you hit 15 volts. Up to 14.8 is just fine.

FWIW
 

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