Light show...or not

Yes ! That's the one . Looks like stators are out of stock . Would someone from the UK be willing to contact them and ask if more will be coming ?
 
TonyA said:
Well Steve , You have a good procedure in the service manual. Get the or a battery charged fully again to start the bike. You can begin at either the rectifier/regulator or the alternator . Manual states to disconnect the alternator plug (3 prong) and start the bike. Check for ACV of minimum 34 V between 2 of the 3 pins at various rpms . Make sure to check all of the pins : 1 to 2 , 1 to 3 , 2 to 3 etc.. If this proves good move to the rectifier/regulator , follow the manual. We have sourced suitable regulator/rectifiers for low cost , the stator is a different matter. I have seen Electrix UK advertise the Norton rotor and stator for sale on their website before. Or give Coote's a call they had some last year. Check for bad connectors and wiring too by ohm check and visual . Try to enjoy it.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tony, good advice as ever. I’ll hook the charger back up and see how we go. Suspect the Shorai may be cactus now though, as it was fully discharged - we’ll see. I have the manual and will check voltages. Unfortunately have guests arriving today for a week!! Limited opportunity to fettle without raising the ire of the Dragon Queen (love her really!). I’ll report back soon. Thanks again.
 
BritTwit said:
I admire your self control sir.
Click to expand...
Showing that British ‘stiff upper lip’ mate.................. . Secretly though, I’m throwing hammers and other large tools around in my head and I’ve just kicked the Norton into a corner and told it to ‘face the wall’!. You remember misbehaving at school?

No, I’ve got other bikes and doing some adventure riding too. I’ll fix the Norton and when I do, it’s capable of giving me a buzz like no other! Gotta love that.

Long live Norton
 
I really like your philosophic attitude. The weird thing is you'll probably remember that ride more that if it had all gone smoothly. And you have a new friend ;)

I am becoming more skeptical of these trickle chargers. All the time I hear of folks saying how their battery has failed after being on charge all winter. All I do is remove my batteries and keep them in the (relative) warmth, then check the voltage every month or so.
 
Thanks guys, good to know it’s there and available should I need it; ships to Aus so all good.

I take your point about battery trickle chargers Cliffa, and the lithium battery just adds another layer of uncertainty. I’ve noted this concern in several related threads - there are differing opinions as you would expect. A few weeks ago I decided to leave it off the maintainer and put it back on to top up the night before a ride only, as I did for the last ride.

I put my stricken bike back on the charger this morning as suggested and in less than an hour it showed fully charged! Go figure. It started on first push of the button! Could have sworn I heard the demon chuckling at me from just under the exhaust note :oops: ! Gonna find the manual and check voltages as soon as I can. I’m starting to feel almost, partially, semi-technically competent! What can possibly go wrong!

Light show...or not
 
Sounds like you’ve been lucky with the Shorai, normally if they go that flat they’re toast! Your bikes clearly not charging for some reason... good luck with the hunt!

For future ref, a Li battery doesn’t ‘add uncertainty’ to the charging topic, but they should be charged / looked after properly. Shorai batteries should have their own dedicated charger / maintainer Stephen.

A Shorai charger will charge the battery fully and then put it into a ‘maintain’ mode. They’re clever things and specifically designed for the needs of the Shorai battery. You’ve no way of knowing if a generic charger is looking after a Shorai properly.

And if being on a ’maintenance‘ setting for a long time, they should be switched to ‘charge’ before using as the maintenance setting only keeps it at 80% to keep the battery healthy.

If you‘re using a charger that plugs into the standard charging point, it ain’t good enough. A Shorai charger plugs directly into the multi pin socket on the battery.

BUT actually a Shorai battery DOES NOT NEED a trickle charge. A Shoria battery will literally sit for years (no, I’m not exaggerating) without losing charge. The only reason to put a bike with a Shorai on charge is to constantly refill the charge being lost through parasitic drain somewhere on the bike. Most 961s seem to come as standard with a large parasitic drain...
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Sounds like you’ve been lucky with the Shorai, normally if they go that flat they’re toast! Your bikes clearly not charging for some reason... good luck with the hunt!

For future ref, a Li battery doesn’t ‘add uncertainty’ to the charging topic, but they should be charged / looked after properly. Shorai batteries should have their own dedicated charger / maintainer Stephen.

A Shorai charger will charge the battery fully and then put it into a ‘maintain’ mode. They’re clever things and specifically designed for the needs of the Shorai battery. You’ve no way of knowing if a generic charger is looking after a Shorai properly.

And if being on a ’maintenance‘ setting for a long time, they should be switched to ‘charge’ before using as the maintenance setting only keeps it at 80% to keep the battery healthy.

BUT actually a Shorai battery DOES NOT NEED a trickle charge. A Shoria battery will literally sit for years (no, I’m not exaggerating) without losing charge. The only reason to put a bike with a Shorai on charge is to constantly refill the charge being lost through parasitic drain somewhere on the bike. Most 961s seem to come as standard with a large parasitic loss...
Click to expand...
Have just discovered Anti-gravity lithium batteries.
Check out the website.
Also they do a battery tracker that connects to battery and sends details to your phone app.
With a warning if battery needs a charge.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Sounds like you’ve been lucky with the Shorai, normally if they go that flat they’re toast! Your bikes clearly not charging for some reason... good luck with the hunt!

For future ref, a Li battery doesn’t ‘add uncertainty’ to the charging topic, but they should be charged / looked after properly. Shorai batteries should have their own dedicated charger / maintainer Stephen.

A Shorai charger will charge the battery fully and then put it into a ‘maintain’ mode. They’re clever things and specifically designed for the needs of the Shorai battery. You’ve no way of knowing if a generic charger is looking after a Shorai properly.

And if being on a ’maintenance‘ setting for a long time, they should be switched to ‘charge’ before using as the maintenance setting only keeps it at 80% to keep the battery healthy.

If you‘re using a charger that plugs into the standard charging point, it ain’t good enough. A Shorai charger plugs directly into the multi pin socket on the battery.

BUT actually a Shorai battery DOES NOT NEED a trickle charge. A Shoria battery will literally sit for years (no, I’m not exaggerating) without losing charge. The only reason to put a bike with a Shorai on charge is to constantly refill the charge being lost through parasitic drain somewhere on the bike. Most 961s seem to come as standard with a large parasitic drain...
Click to expand...
I hear you FE. Didn’t really do my due diligence when purchasing. Just researched which lithium battery charger was getting the best reviews and purchased it. Didn’t even consider Shorai’s own charger:rolleyes:! Gonna find out why the bikes not charging and have another look at the whole battery/charger situation.

Also may have a look at measuring the parasitic drain - mainly through the clocks if I remember the thread correctly. Appreciate the input.

Steve
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I hear you FE. Didn’t really do my due diligence when purchasing. Just researched which lithium battery charger was getting the best reviews and purchased it. Didn’t even consider Shorai’s own charger:rolleyes:! Gonna find out why the bikes not charging and have another look at the whole battery/charger situation.

Also may have a look at measuring the parasitic drain - mainly through the clocks if I remember the thread correctly. Appreciate the input.

Steve
Click to expand...
With a battery tracker you can check all of this.
They do a Lithium one and a Lead acid one.
 
Got some free time next week to fault find the charging problem. My 961 is a 2015 CR (non ABS of course). This is the manual that I have - “961 - All variants“ 436 pages. Can I confirm that this is the manual you guys are using? 1 of 2? Am I missing a second part to this publication? I realise my model is pre-euro 4 but I am assuming that most other information (less ABS evap system etc) will be extant? Advice appreciated. Steve.

8B110F67-83D7-42BD-B044-4D669BC72D34.png
 
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Stephen_Spencer said:
Got some free time next week to fault find the charging problem. My 961 is a 2015 CR (non ABS of course). This is the manual that I have - “961 - All variants“ 436 pages. Can I confirm that this is the manual you guys are using? 1 of 2? Am I missing a second part to this publication? I realise my model is pre-euro 4 but I am assuming that most other information (less ABS evap system etc) will be extant? Advice appreciated. Steve.

View attachment 79070
Click to expand...
That is the only one Norton sent out for download. I don't know what 1 of 2 means either.
 
Yes, a bit odd to say the least. So is there a second (2 of 2) supplementary manual? Who knows. Gonna print what I’ve got so I can scribble in the margins and get dirty biker fingerprints all over it!
 
Finally got rid of my guests and got around to fault diagnosing the charging system on my CR. Always had a technical blind spot with electricity - after all, you can’t see it and it can kill you!! I fumbled my way through the manual. Results:

- Rec/Reg output voltage - engine running, voltmeter reads 13.1 and does not increase when revs are increased. Voltage actually starts to drop = Rec/Reg defective or Alternator output insufficient.

- Alternator Insp - checked voltage via Alternator cable. At tick over 23v (low - should be approx 34v). Higher up the rev range though, voltage increases incrementally to max of 55-60v from a handful of throttle. Stator resistance is within spec (0.3-0.4 ohm) = Alternator functioning correctly (?). Rec/Reg suspect.

- Rec/Reg Insp - checked via Rec/Reg cable* - Lead connections N1 and B26 read ‘0‘ ohms, in relation to any other connection. All readings between B111, B112 and B113 read ‘1.2 - 1.3‘ ohms. These readings appear strange and are clearly out of spec (if I’m measuring correctly) = Rec/Reg is toast (?)

* Not sure why we are checking resistance (and therefore Rec/Reg serviceability) through the cable and not the unit itself?o_O. Is this correct, or should I be checking the Rec/Reg unit connection?

In conclusion, (I think) I need a new Rec/Reg. I understand we have identified a provider - detail would be appreciated. You can probably tell that I am not 100% confident in my results!! Any feedback would be gratefully received.

Steve ‘definitely not auto electrician competent’ Spencer
 
There is a ref somewhere to a Honda CBR900RR, CBR600 F2 F3 F4, 1991 - 1999 reg/rect as being a match.
I replaced mine recently, my battery was spitting acid out of the relief port so presumably overcharging, and the resistance checks in the manual were a fail. I did the checks direct on the reg/rect pins.
I went with a Ricks Motorsport Electrics Hot Shot (Mosfet) version, suitable for the Honda models listed above. It was an easy fit but the bike won't be running for a while so i can't comment on how good it is.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Not sure why we are checking resistance (and therefore Rec/Reg serviceability) through the cable and not the unit itself?o_O. Is this correct, or should I be checking the Rec/Reg unit connection?
Click to expand...
You should be checking the unit itself. Make the measurements directly on the pins of the rec/reg. You are checking to see if the SCR/diodes are shorted/open with the ohm tester. Don't forget to reverse the polarity of the leads (check both ways) .
 
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DOH - thought that did’nt make sense! I readily accept Access Norton’s ‘dork of the month’ award for that one:rolleyes:! The procedure shows an image of the cable end and boot in plan view and then what appears to be in side elevation! Inviting the technically challenged to test the plug - that’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it!!

Access is very limited to the rear of the unit, even with the rear airbox bladder/oil catcher moved aside - is it acceptable to dismount the rec/reg or does it need to remain in place? I will test again today.

The below ebay item appears to be an exact match as you say. At A$25 I’m going to order it anyway as a spare or at least to physically eliminate it from the fault finding.

Appreciate your feedback guys.

D3450412-B88C-4B90-90F9-350A57BDD5D9.png

1666A496-87D1-4D1A-8D20-DAA706DAC930.png
 

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