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Maybe you should replace all of your fuses also . You may have one that is cracking .
 
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Hi Stephen, It's obviously something breaking down under load. The fact that everything died when you hit the starter button would seem to suggest that the battery is at fault and the zero reading at the battery tender plug seems to bear this out as its directly connected to the battery isn't it? I have heard in the past of battery terminal posts breaking inside the casing and making intermittent contact which cannot handle high load.
Yon mean this is the same old battery you had before ? :(
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Thanks guys, this is the same Shorai battery - it‘s 11 months old. It was sent back under warranty action and fully tested (partial discharge, load etc etc). The technician called me and explained in great detail about the testing and results. The battery is good (apparently) and actually produces 330 CCA - no wonder it would generally start first stab before the troubles. That said, I still have a nagging doubt about it, so am going to purchase another. Worth A$ 300 for peace of mind and to definitively rule it out of my technical difficulties.

I will also change all fuses and x6 relays (for Honda 38502-MCS-G01). Good to have a plan! Now, love my Norton but I’m gonna go ride the KTM:D! Happy fettling and I’ll keep you appraised.
 
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cliffa

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Hi Stephen, didn’t you say your KTM has the same battery? If so why not swap them to test?
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Hi Stephen, didn’t you say your KTM has the same battery? If so why not swap them to test?
No, unfortunately not. I recontacted the technician about the odd behaviour of the charger and still suspect battery and got further testing advice (below). It appears that the charger may be behaving outside or normal parameters because the battery is not reaching full charge.

Even if I can get the charger to ‘repair’ the battery I still wouldn’t have confidence in it. I’m going to change it for that reason alone. I think it’s evident that I still have an intermittent electrical fault - the worst kind! I could jump on my bike now and go for a ride but would I make it back without the assistance of a breakdown truck? Can’t just ride around the block because I live in an (extremely) hilly area.

No matter, I have a plan. Do the further battery testing - if for interest only. Purchase new battery, relays and fuses and go again. If this does’nt resolve my issue I’m give it to the dealer :)
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Further Shorai battery testing advice.

RE Shorai Lithium Battery - Warranty.png
 

Stephen_Spencer

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So eventually received new relays, will pick up fuses locally and have a new Shorai battery. Rec/Reg replaced.

Gonna see if this resolves my electrical/charging woes - we shall see.

The Honda packaged (made in Japan) numbered Omron relays (made in China) look good quality. Supplied by Partzilla in the US. It really is impossible to avoid buying Chinese goods.

5D852621-9E9B-4D5B-94D7-3AED72985FF9.jpeg
36CF3235-89E4-41CD-B12C-F31852225E25.jpeg
 

BritTwit

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So basically, only the Genuine HONDA packaging sticker is made in Japan.
Truly a sad commentary on the state of the world.
 
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So eventually received new relays, will pick up fuses locally and have a new Shorai battery. Rec/Reg replaced.

Gonna see if this resolves my electrical/charging woes - we shall see.

The Honda packaged (made in Japan) numbered Omron relays (made in China) look good quality. Supplied by Partzilla in the US. It really is impossible to avoid buying Chinese goods.

View attachment 80658 View attachment 80659
Have a look at this picture I posted some time ago with the Honda OMRON Relays I purchased before :

 

Stephen_Spencer

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Mmmmmm! thanks Tony. Wonder what that means for quality control - knock off or genuine? Who knows.

Appears OMRON have had a manufacturing base in China for quite a few years. The relays appear well made.

CD8631C3-3FBA-401C-80C8-D1F9DD18A872.jpeg
AB56BA34-A4DA-44C3-BD85-151D4D143E8F.jpeg
 

Clive

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There is absolutely no reason why a Chinese made product should be poorer quality than from anywhere else in the world. The real problem is the lack of respect for international copyright and patents which means that a Chinese company can either blatantly copy an existing product or, as often happens, after entering into an agreement to tool up and manufacture goods for a western company they continue to produce them to a substandard quality as an illegal back-door business. It must be a source of immense frustration for legitimate Chinese companies to be tarred with the same brush.
 

MAK

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So eventually received new relays, will pick up fuses locally and have a new Shorai battery. Rec/Reg replaced.

Gonna see if this resolves my electrical/charging woes - we shall see.

The Honda packaged (made in Japan) numbered Omron relays (made in China) look good quality. Supplied by Partzilla in the US. It really is impossible to avoid buying Chinese goods.

View attachment 80658 View attachment 80659
Regarding the battery drain.
I pulled out the fuse that controls the left hand clock,battery voltage,miles etc.
Doing this not only stopped the drain but the battery also stated to come back up!
My Guzzi 1200 Sport would discharge after a given length of time.
The 961 just seems to do it quicker.
Have mentioned this before but a friend has a 2018 961 and it will still start after three months.
 

ntst8

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So eventually received new relays, will pick up fuses locally and have a new Shorai battery. Rec/Reg replaced.

Gonna see if this resolves my electrical/charging woes - we shall see.

The Honda packaged (made in Japan) numbered Omron relays (made in China) look good quality. Supplied by Partzilla in the US. It really is impossible to avoid buying Chinese goods.

View attachment 80658 View attachment 80659
I had to check mine after this, 4 made in China and 2 made in Japan. All came from the local Honda dealer.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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There is absolutely no reason why a Chinese made product should be poorer quality than from anywhere else in the world. The real problem is the lack of respect for international copyright and patents which means that a Chinese company can either blatantly copy an existing product or, as often happens, after entering into an agreement to tool up and manufacture goods for a western company they continue to produce them to a substandard quality as an illegal back-door business. It must be a source of immense frustration for legitimate Chinese companies to be tarred with the same brush.
I accept that Clive however, I have other objections to buying Chinese products. I will avoid it if I can.
 

Fast Eddie

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The relay story and the made in Japan label are indeed a sad reflection of today’s world.

But there’s made in China and there’s made in China…

Meaning, genuine OEM parts made by a reputable manufacturer will still be trustworthy if made in China.

But cheap ebay parts from an unknown source in China most definitely are not !
 

Clive

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The relay story and the made in Japan label are indeed a sad reflection of today’s world.

But there’s made in China and there’s made in China…

Meaning, genuine OEM parts made by a reputable manufacturer will still be trustworthy if made in China.

But cheap ebay parts from an unknown source in China most definitely are not !
My point exactly but so long as we keep buying cheap rubbish they'll keep making them. Unfortunately now there are so many around it is now very difficult to ensure that a part is original even if bought through a reputable distributor at full price...
 

BritTwit

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As long as those Communist Chinese relays arrive with a genuine Honda part sticker, I'll feel better.
After all, they couldn't knock off the sticker too, could they? :p
Just joking.

If you buy it direct from a Honda dealer, or trusted distributor, it's genuine Honda stuff.
I agree, if the stuff came from a Chinese factory that supplies Honda, you can bet Honda did their normal QA/QC on that production batch.
 

Stephen_Spencer

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Finally got the opportunity to fit the new battery and swap out the relays. Interestingly three of the under seat relays were numbered by hand. Not sure why given they are identical - related to cable attachment during assembly maybe.

Fitted the new Shorai battery. Spaced the battery for height to match the original battery and so the strap provided security. Put longer bolts in the posts, with spring washers. Was‘nt happy with security of the OEM shorter post bolts. Taped the Shorai charging cable to the side of the battery/box to ensure lowest profile. Tank back on, reconnect, turn key, nothing. Completely dead.

Tank back off; it is pretty easy with a little practice and I’ve had a lot! Checked seating of relays etc, all good. Battery fully charged but no power to bike. Pulled the 30A fuse from the positive cable housing and checked resistance, all good. Manipulated the positive cable with ignition on and ‘voila’, ignition lights came on, relays click, fuel pump primes. Gently manipulate the cable again and the sound of shorting and ignition off. This doesn’t explain all of the symptoms of my charging/ electrical difficulties but obviously a significant contributing factor.

A closer look at the positive cable shows what appears to be some sort of crimping damage just below the terminal boot and further damage under the boot, adjacent to the terminal. The crimping damage is a mystery. The under boot damage I can only assume comes from contact with the tank. I was very careful when packing the Shorai for height in the past, to match the original battery, noting that as such the battery strap is under minimum tension. That said this must be a vibration/rub damage from the tank. How it transferred through the rubber boot is also a mystery.

With the battery so mounted, when viewed from the underside, lifting the tank slightly (no fixings in place) and lowering again, the tank does contact the battery and lower the tray slightly. My guess is this is how battery trays have been failing, under permanent tension and through vibration. If I lower the battery by removing packing the strap has no tension.

So my immediate problem is the replacement of this cable, which routes under the tank/frame and disappears into the main wiring loom wrap. I guess this terminates at the starter motor but may also feed other parts of the electrical system. I have (very) limited auto electrical knowledge. Is the replacement of this cable/section going to be difficult - it seems so? Am I better trying to section in a new terminal/ fuse cable end to the existing wiring? Should I be getting out of the way and giving this repair to my dealer? Thanks Tony/guys - any input would be gratefully received, as ever.

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Fast Eddie

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Lower the battery and put packing on top of the battery to restore strap tension. It’ll give more space for terminals under t’ tank… (still need some cushioning under it tho).

Or you could buy some adhesive backed velcro and velcro the sucker in place. Some with ’classic’ Commandos have done just that successfully.
 
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cliffa

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Good find!! I think those marks are just where something has been pressing against the cable. I would cut the red boot open and see whats going on underneath, then if that is ok look at the fuse holder connections.
 
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