July 4th ride / breakdown

Single phase stock alternator on all four bikes, with pod type regulator : with no draw but the ignition I will see 15-15.2
volts at cruise. With head lamp (stock) 14.2. AGM battery. 15 volts seems too much but I simply run with the lamps on.
However with an LED headlamp the draw is much lower.
I'll put off any Li battery thoughts for a while.

I can recommend these…

alan hodge said:

a far cry from when we carried 25 cents in the pocket of our jeans and hoped there was a pay phone around!

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Every key fob always had a quarter stuck in the back. That one has been in there since 1979. Bike is still in service.

Jerry Doe said:

I am assuming you are done with Lithium then too? Never again for me. I am changing the batteries in the 850 as well (I have 2 lithium's in it)..
What's funny is I was going on that same ride with them 2 years ago and the 750 broke down while filling up prior to the ride. That time it was the Trispark. It has Pazon in now.

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Ah yes, my first Tri Spark died about 100 miles into it's initial ride after installation about 10 years ago ( I think). Still running
the warranty replacement. Took out a kamikaze deer with the trailer that I used to retrieve it

When I got my 750 in '71, the first ride was without a battery. Just put neg cable to ground and kicked it over and rode around the block. That was with points though. Electronic ignitions seem to need a healthy battery. A friend's MK3 died with a Tri Spark when his battery cable lost connection and battery got drained.

Jerry Doe said:

I really need to dig into this and see what’s going on. First I am going to see if the battery will charge. If it does I will start the bike up and see if it’s charging or not. I have 2 Shorai in my MK3, so might have to get one from there.

I have a 3 phase alternator and modern rectifier,

it’s going to be a while, but will update this with the findings

cheers

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Once a smart LifePo4 battery goes dead the smarts in the battery won't allow it to be re-charged. There are supposedly chargers out there than can get around the smarts, but I have zero experience with one, and personally wouldn't trust the battery again anyway.

If I had space, I'd probably use an AGM battery instead of the LifePo4. Unfortunately, I built what is essentially a ground plane out of aluminum plate with a battery shelf on it, and can't get a small AGM battery to fit behind my battery cover. Bike never had a stock battery box on it. It was cut out before I got it. Not a Commando either. If I had a Commando that was in stock trim, I would use an AGM for peace of mind.

There are expensive and not so expensive reg/rect boxes out there that support LifePo4. I got the TriSpark reg/rect from Greg Marsh, because he is the best US source for TriSpark and many other things Norton related. It is not really a LifePo4 compliant regulator, but seems to work alright. I almost bought a Rick's Motorsports reg/rect that supports LifePo4 from Revival Cycles in Texas. Hard to beat their prices. Some of the other power regulation products out there are redamndiculously priced and very large.

Enough of my nonsense. Good luck with it all.

gortnipper said:

What reg/rect do you have Jerry? Did you use a maintenance charger? What kind?

I had my four year old Podtronics fail, and had been using it with a Shorai with a litium Battery Tender. I went to a TS MOSFET unit, and it works fine with my Motobatt AGM that I got as a safety net for the NZ rally that was happening the week after installing the MOSFET and I didnt know if the battery would hold a charge. 4 mos later is is still fully charged on the workbench.

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I cannot remember what rectifier it is, I think podtronics. Its got a 3 phase alternator. I dont do any trickle charging. The battery has never got flat. I will get into this more later. Here is how my setup looks:

Too clean might be why it stopped running.

Very nice work.

I've been running the same Shorai battery since '12. Fix the charging system!

Jerry Doe said:

I will never forget the English weather
Up in the mountains here storms come quite frequently. In the Summer It really pisses down and then is sunny and hot again in 30 mins.

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I experienced your mountain weather first hand. A few years ago I was in Montrose and we took a ride along the Million Dollar highway to Silverton. It was over 90F when we left and we dressed accordingly. In Silverton it got quite cool as we left and then it rained. A cold bone chilling rain soaked us to the skin and riding down the mountain in heavy rain wasn't fun. As we got lower it warmed up and we dried out completely. That was part of an amazing 3 week journey I'll never forget.

When I was on the side of the road I checked the battery with one of those volt testers that someone had. It had a light and volt reading. I checked it on the owners truck and it was reading 12 volts so was working well. On my battery it was 0 volts directly on terminals.

I took the cover off and checked the battery with my fluke meter and it registered 11.4 volts today. Very odd. I put the Shorai charger on and it dropped to 8 volts. I am going to leave the charger plugged in and will check it later.

Something fishy going on.

All Motobats are Chinese made. Just a reminder. I had one in the Tiger, one oin the RZ350, both lived 2 years.

Jerry Doe said:

When I was on the side of the road I checked the battery with one of those volt testers that someone had. It had a light and volt reading. I checked it on the owners truck and it was reading 12 volts so was working well. On my battery it was 0 volts directly on terminals.

I took the cover off and checked the battery with my fluke meter and it registered 11.4 volts today. Very odd. I put the Shorai charger on and it dropped to 8 volts. I am going to leave the charger plugged in and will check it later.

Something fishy going on.

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Make sure it's outdoors, away from any structure.

Reminds me of my down mountain free wheeling after engine quit due to fuel sloshed forward away from petcocks on a 1/3 full HiRider 2 Gal. Tank. Quite a hoot doing 45 mph with only wind noise for five minutes.
Are you going to put back a 2MC capacitor? Seems it would have saved you here?

Tornado said:

Reminds me of my down mountain free wheeling after engine quit due to fuel sloshed forward away from petcocks on a 1/3 full HiRider 2 Gal. Tank. Quite a hoot doing 45 mph with only wind noise for five minutes.
Are you going to put back a 2MC capacitor? Seems it would have saved you here?

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I am not sure what to do next, but doubt I'll put the capacitor back in, however I do have a few of them. I am not convinced its battery related now. Its plugged into the Shorai charger and both "Store" and "Charge" lights are flashing. On the charger it says that means the battery became overly discharged. I think this could be related to something else. Ken (and Matt who emailed), I also think you are right, it should have kept running. I will update you when I find the cause of this.

Deets55 said:

View attachment 80908
Every key fob always had a quarter stuck in the back. That one has been in there since 1979. Bike is still in service.

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When I opened up the headlamp shell on my 71 Roadster that I hadn't touched in 30 something years I found a dime and a folded up dollar bill. Phone call & fill-up back then. Wouldn't get me anywhere today.

If the running voltage dropped enough, the EI would quit working. Parasitic drain most likely, but I think you already know that, and just have to figure out where it is. Maybe its one of those kill button short things?

When I ran a batteryless configuration, the alternator and battery eliminator electronics alone had a tendency to go below the threshold at low idle RPM and my motor would die with the lights on at stops. Had to blip the throttle at stops to keep the EI working when the motor was cold. Actually I ran a lot with the lights off back then, and relied on my delusional force field to keep me alive.

Shorai battery charged up and is holding a charge at 13.4 volts, so I take it all back mr Shorai. I think its something else (charging issue).

SH775 R/R is your friend.


Jaydee

Jerry Doe said:

Shorai battery charged up and is holding a charge at 13.4 volts, so I take it all back mr Shorai. I think its something else (charging issue).

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Test the voltage reg.

Instructions here, including 3-phase.

I'm not sure if Li batteries can be load tested as we do with lead acid. Sometimes lead acid batteries will charge up nicely and hold a good voltage, but will fall apart under load.
The load tester sorts that out.

You could try putting a steady draw on it such as headlight on . If after full charge, the battery goes into survival mode and shuts down after running the headlight for a few minutes ( with engine off) , you will know it is toast.

Glen